The Longevity Lifestyle: Ancient Secrets & Modern Insights with Dr. Josh Axe

Dr. Mindy On this episode of the Resetter Podcast, I am bringing you Josh Axe. Now, this is a really phenomenal conversation on longevity. And Dr. Axe, if you're not familiar with who he is, he has been teaching health on social media before any of us were there, before any doctor was there. You'll hear me talk to him today. I was like, you're the OG of giving solid health advice on social media. And he hasn't stopped. And what I wanted to do with him in this conversation, because of his vast knowledge on nutrition, because he and I align on the idea that the body is always doing the right thing at right time, I wanted to pick his brain on what we know through a science lens about the greatest tools that we have to keep our brains and our bodies vibrant as we age. And so we start off the conversation talking about like, what is longevity and how does that compare to anti-aging? And then we went into the biohacking movement, which Josh and I also align on, that you can't hack into an intricate ecosystem. And this part of the conversation was so fascinating to me because what we really geeked out on is this beautiful symbiotic relationship between the human body and nature. And Josh brought so much current science into this conversation about what nature does for our aging bodies. You definitely don't want to miss that piece. Then we morphed into a really interesting place. And I don't think we're editing this out. So I'm going to keep it in here because we had a moment of discussing the political nature of health at this particular time, especially here in America. And what is the biggest concern for the human body? And you'll hear both of our opinions. We didn't necessarily agree on this one. And I'm leaving it there as just a way for us to start to critically think about the health information that is being dished out to us in this new political era that we're sitting in. So I left it there for you. And then we really close off the conversation with some amazing nutrition and solid, solid information on nutrition. This is Josh's specialty. And he really dove into those to specific foods. So those of you that really want to look deeper into incorporating foods into your life that will help support your aging body, you want to make sure you stick through to the back end of this conversation. But this was really like one of those conversations that if I, Josh and I were having dinner together, this is what we'd be talking about. So I hope you enjoy it as much as he and I both loved having it. And as always, with all my podcasts, I really hope that this information empowers you and helps you find the rhythm that is right for you with your health and the miraculous body you get to live in. So Dr. Josh Axe, enjoy. Welcome to the Resetter Podcast. This podcast is all about empowering you to believe in yourself again. If you have a passion for learning, if you're looking to be in control of your health and take your power back, this is the podcast for you. Josh, Dr. Josh Axe, I have to start off by telling you something that I have not ever told you. And that's that I'm sitting here in my social media platform, largely because of you. And the reason is I watched you in those early days when you were on Pinterest, and you were giving away amazing protocols to everybody. And I literally had patients coming into my office with like printed out like your protocols off Pinterest, asking me what I thought of them. And my, I'm going to be really transparent. My, my brain was like, who is this guy? And like, why is he giving away all this free information? And then I started watching you and watched what you did and how you really changed. This is the credit I really want to give you, is that you're the OG of bringing health information to social media. And you did it in such a beautiful way of just a desire to help people with the knowledge that you had. And you were one of the few people that I looked at and thought, well, gosh, if you can do it, I can do it. And so you inspired me to even start. So I just want to say thank you for that. Josh Axe Well, that's honoring, encouraging. Thanks so much. Dr. Mindy So here's a really fun topic that I'm excited that we're going into, this topic of longevity. And what I will tell you is that I sat with the word anti-aging for a really long time. And I thought, why do we hate aging so much that we had to put the word anti in front of it? And then we had to create a whole industry around people who are going to make you fear aging and stop aging. Yet every day, every second, we are aging. So I want to start off with, can you help us understand the difference between aging and longevity? And what is actually happening to us? This is a deeper question on a cellular level as our body starts to move into these older states. Josh Axe Yeah, yeah. Well, I love the question. Let me start off with this. You were talking about social media. I did a social media post here on Instagram not too long ago. And I said, here are the top foods to eat to live to 120. And you know, the most common question, the response I got was, I don't want to live to be 120. Yes. And it caught me a little bit off guard, but then I sat there and understood it because I had a grandmother who was going through Alzheimer's and seeing what that was like. And then so many people become feeble or on multiple medications and are so sick and suffering when they get to a certain point in life and think, well, if aging is about suffering, and getting older is about suffering. That doesn't sound like something I want to be sold or something I want. Versus, you know, I was really blessed to go on a trip to Asia here. This was quite a few years ago, but I was so blown away by, you know, one of the things they would do is they would go out in the streets. They would typically take two hours for lunch. And where I was in China, they would go out and they would do Tai Chi in the afternoons or right around lunch. And there were a number of people over a hundred years old. I said, how old is that woman? How old is that man? 104, 106. And I'm like, and they're still being this active. And that was really, really incredible. And, and so, so, you know, and then here's another thing, and I'll kind of touch on this here real quick, and then I'll get into this longevity idea. But, you know, I had a, I had a major health issue about three years ago where I almost died. And it really caused me to spend the last three to four years, focusing almost solely on longevity and healing. And when you look at the medical literature today, the number keeps going up. It was there are nine hallmarks of aging, then 12, and someone's like 15. But there are many hallmarks of aging in functional or Western medicine today. But let me hit on Eastern medicine first before I go back when it Both ties into longevity. When you look at Chinese medicine, longevity is tied to what they call Josh Axe the three treasures. And they call that Shen, Chi, and Jing. Okay. Shen is tied to your spiritual health. Chi is tied to your cellular health, your ATP. They would call it breath. And then Jing is tied to, they would tie it to your DNA, your actual physicality, your physical body. And it's really tied to sperm, to the egg, to your bone marrow, your stem cells are a prime example of what they would call that. And then there's this saying in Chinese medicine, to prolong life, protect the three treasures. And so they believe really building health in terms of the mental spiritual side, the mental side and the physical side are the keys to longevity. And one of the things that I really noticed in my practice over the years is that a lot of people are sick because they have childhood trauma. They have a lot of negative thinking. They might be living with unforgiveness or fear or worry. And these actually affect our organ systems and make them sick. And then also there's an element of, like we talked about, sort of a mind-body connection. And then of course, eating a poor diet, that ages us as well. And then when we look at the nine hallmarks of aging, or let me just hit on some of the hallmarks, because there's just a lot to get through. But, you know, I think that some of the big ones for me is one is imbalancing your circadian rhythms. When we're not living in tune with nature, that ages us. And that really sort of kicks off a neuroendocrine response where cortisol gets too high, or at least it's fluctuating incorrectly, which is affecting melatonin. And, you know, cortisol is kind of this master hormone where cortisol gets high, well, now insulin gets high. When insulin's high, now there's an estrogen issue, and then that can lead to thyroid hormone issues later on. And you know this as well as anybody and teach on this. But I think that circadian rhythms being off, that is a major hallmark of aging. Another one would be microbiome dysbiosis. You know, your gut gets off. That's causing an aging issue. And what's connected to the gut, I'm going to hit on just two others because I know we can dive into this stuff as we go on. But sort of our immune system, and so we see these senescent cells building up. But one of the biggest signs of us aging is something called immunosenescence, where we have too many of these senescent cells, which are zombie cells, which are very inflammatory if they're left in the body. They're kind of dead cells is why they're called that. And then the last one would be, I'll hit on here quickly, is stem cell exhaustion. We don't have stem cells enough to regenerate and heal. And stem cells are those tissues that if you have an area of injury or you're aging, let's say you get a sunburn or anything happens that's sort of negative to where there's destruction of cells in your body, stem cells are created to help regenerate, heal, and repair the body. And when those stem cells get exhausted in your body and you don't have enough of them, you don't heal as well. And that's something people may notice if they're aging too quickly or if they have an injury, it doesn't heal as well. Of course, this always happens as we age to a degree, but sometimes more quickly than it should happen. And so those are some of those big signs of aging. But again, there's about 9 to 15 hallmarks in Western medicine. There's three hallmarks of aging when it comes to ancient medicine like in Japan and Asia. But those are some things people need to be aware of when it comes to longevity and aging. Dr. Mindy So are you saying that if we know that these markers are happening, if we already know the stem cell exhaustion and, you know, that autophagy may be not as efficiently working like there, then there it's this is the way I think about aging after studying it for so long is like it's almost like we need a new playbook. Like if you've been doing your life this way from zero to 40, I think at 40 is the moment which somebody needs to swap out the lifestyle playbook. Josh Axe Would you agree? Yeah, I agree. Now, I think we could also argue it could actually be done even earlier. Dr. Mindy Maybe. Yeah. Josh Axe But to your point, yes, I do think that's when people are most conscious. And when you get injured at 40 and beyond or you have certain things happen, your body is absolutely not as resilient. it. So something happens there. And I like your example of it being a playbook because there are so many things we can do in terms of what the ideal foods are, what the ideal herbs are, what the ideal advanced therapies are, what the ideal habits are that can allow us to age more slowly. It's not anti-aging, it's really aging. Here's the reality. I think we're all sort of hardwired to live around 120 years. I think there's a scientific journal that recently came out and kind of threw that number out there as well. Based on, you know, we've, we had somebody, I think passed away last year, that was 117. There is one person, and I don't know how accurate their, their, their tracking of her age was. They said it was 122. That's the longest I've ever heard that was actually looked at and had it written down. But I think we're hardwired for that age. You know, let's say the average American dies at somewhere on 78. You know, it's somewhere in that ballpark. A lot of people are doing, think about that. If you're a hardwired to age to live to 120, we're doing 42 years of damage to ourselves and our body. And it's because we're not, to your point, following the right playbook. Dr. Mindy So what's interesting, though, is I agree with you. Like, you know, we should be thinking about aging the day we're born, right? There should be sort of a plan for avoiding the harms of what aging brings, avoiding chronic disease. I think you and I both align. That should be hardwired into a human from the day that they're born. But we live in a culture that doesn't think that way. And we live in a culture that looks at anti-aging or longevity as, oh, you don't have any wrinkles, you don't have any gray hair. And so the way we measure aging is completely off. And one of the things I want to go back to that I'm so happy you brought up is the way you explained how Chinese medicine looks at this. Because I have a really good friend who spent last winter skiing in Japan. And she would send me pictures all the time. She's like, Mindy, look at how many seniors are out walking. Look at how many seniors are being like lifted up by the culture. And they're so honored in that Japanese culture of like, you are wisdom now. And we don't have that in our culture. In fact, people are so scared of aging that they're like injecting themselves with poison so that they, you won't see that I'm aging. So is there is in the longevity conversation also needs to be a conversation about how do we start to culturally help aging people so that they don't feel like they're going to become invisible? Josh Axe I love that. I love that you brought this up, Dr. Mindy, because this is something I've talked about a couple of times is that part of it is like what most people move towards what culture glorifies. And so, you know, if it's for women, let's just give an example. If it's motherhood, well, then they go after that. If it's being a CEO boss, it's that. Both If it's looking very, very young, it's that. Josh Axe But when you look at Asian culture, wisdom is one of those key words that they really honor and look at. And I think as you get older, that comes with more wisdom, more life experience. And so, you know, and there's many Asian quotes around sort of the graying hair, your hair going gray, and that being a sign of wisdom and honoring people that are getting more wrinkles and their hair is turning a different color and those sort of things. So I think if in the United States or in the Western world, if we would look at people that were getting older and we would say, that's wisdom right there. I want to learn from that person. I want to be mentored. I want to be discipled. I want to, you know, I want to honor them. Then I think more, you know, we'd have a lot less Botox. There would be a lot less of everyone feeling like I need to, you know, I need to look 20 years younger than I am. And so, yeah, I think that's a great point. Dr. Mindy You know, I walked around as I was researching age like a girl. I walked around for years asking people, what does wisdom look like? Like, how do you know you're in the presence of wisdom? Both If everybody's freezing their face, how would you know? Dr. Mindy Like, I can go to my Instagram and see a picture of like a very appley, aboriginal woman from the outback. And I look at every wrinkle and I'm like, wow, that's a story to tell. Both Wow, if those wrinkles could talk. I look at gray hair as like wisdom strands. Dr. Mindy Like, oh my God, you earned that gray hair. And I think that we don't have that here in our culture. But on the opposite side, and this is another thing that you and I have both been immersed in, is the biohacking world. And we now have not only are we not honoring aging because we don't want to look like we're aging. We're now offering you a whole world of fast hacks to slow the aging process down. And so for I can tell you through the female lens, that becomes another list of have tos. So now I got to jump in cold water. I got to get red light. I got to start doing three day water fast. I got to go get my NAD. Like, is that what longevity is supposed to look like? Josh Axe No, you know, I definitely not. Now, it's not to say that doing some of these advanced therapies or biohacks aren't beneficial for some people. But here's what biohacks are. First of all, I hate the word hacks. Both I just got to throw it out there. Yeah, me too. Josh Axe I hate it because it comes from a mentality that the body is a piece of machinery. Both It's not. Josh Axe The human body is, to me, this divine amazing. It's amazing. It's absolutely incredible. So looking at the body with just sort of awe and wonder in its biology rather than it being a machine, I think that's one perspective that needs to be shift for people in thinking about the body. Dr. Mindy Yeah, I agree. Josh Axe But I'm actually writing a book on longevity. It won't be out for a full year, so I got a little ways before it's out. But one of the things I'm getting into in the book is really sort of, I'm trying to think of the word I'll use in there, but it's really living in tune with nature. I mean, you know what's a lot better than red light therapy? even though I love red light therapy, is the sun. Both And the sun not only has red light, it has blue light, Josh Axe which has major anti-inflammatory properties. It's got green light. It's got violet light. Both It's got all these different color lights. Josh Axe Different lights have different benefits on the body. So laying out in the sun, not getting burnt, okay? Do not get burnt. It's terrible for aging. But getting sunshine on your skin directly is better than red light therapy. It has tremendous benefits, not only vitamin D, but so much even beyond that. And then, you know, I think about, you know, I also like hyperbaric Both oxygen therapy. I think it's a great therapy, but you know, it's as great as doing box breathing or Josh Axe Qigong, which is done throughout Asia, doing things to help oxygenate your body and cells. Sound. I mean, just sitting there listening to the sound of waves crash or crickets in the forest, or just that stillness when you're walking into nature, most of those sound waves are theta sounds. Now, what's interesting is at dawn and dusk, they're a little bit different. It sort of changes versus like an intense storm is more alpha waves. There's some deep sleep that you have of the sound of like cicadas at night. But these sort of nature therapy of sounds is one of the fastest ways to help regulate our sympathetic and parasympathetic nerve system. That's an amazing therapy. My point is this, is that biohacking is a, it's really should be supplemental. Dr. Mindy This other stuff is food. Josh Axe It's like, you can take supplements. Dr. Mindy We love those. Josh Axe Those are great. But your diet is way more important than any supplement. And, you know, there is a, there is an, a, the census came out in Japan, like, I think it was like eight weeks ago. They have 99,500, so almost 100,000 centurions in Japan. This island of Japan, 100,000 people over 100 years old. And the biggest thing that I've noticed is I've studied Japanese culture, and maybe you could share this as well, because I know you wrote an amazing book on longevity, which you're on my podcast about too, Age Like a Girl, which I'm excited to get into there. you know, it's really just their rhythms of life. They're outside a lot. They're moving a lot. They're not rushing. There's an ancient Asian quote and it says, wisdom, no, it's patience is the greatest companion of wisdom. So it's like, hey, Both do you want to know if somebody's wise or not? How patient are they? That's sort of what they call one of the cardinal signs of wisdom in Asia. So anyways, there to your point, I think that Josh Axe biohacking can be great, can be beneficial, especially, hey, if it's the winter and it's really not sunny, you can use some red light therapy, but it doesn't make up for the real thing. Dr. Mindy I am so happy. I hope you bring back nature. In that book, please bring back nature as the greatest healer. I have an experience with this that just has rocked me. After the fires in LA, I was riding age like a girl, and I just needed somewhere where I could just get out of the the mayhem of, of everything and finish the book. And so I landed here in Santa Cruz. And when I got here, I had multiple people tell me, Mindy, the, the nature here is very healing. Let nature heal you go out, see the ocean, get in the forest. So I did every single day, I would go and look at the ocean. And every single day I'd go in the forest. I eventually started surfing. I took up surfing two months ago. Both Wow. Yeah, at 56 years old. And I just plop my board with a friend in the water. And now I go Dr. Mindy out and surf every morning and I go hike every afternoon. And I have I like you, I have done every supplement. I have done every biohack. I have done everything. I have had every type of therapy on the planet and nothing, nothing has changed and rewired my brain by committing to a daily dose of water and forest every single day. I am in awe. I'm literally watching my brain rewire to all the traumas that have ever gone in my life are just going away, and this happy, Josh Axe resilient brain is emerging. It's amazing. One interesting thing about the ocean, because I know that's where you're on the coast there, there are these organisms in the ocean Both called bacteriophages. You're probably familiar with phage therapy. Of course, yeah. Josh Axe in certain areas of Asia rather than doing antibiotics. But the ocean is the greatest. It's the most bacteriophage dense substance on the planet. Both And so you have all these sort of natural antibiotics you're exposing yourself. Josh Axe That's why it's so great. People will say, I went to the ocean. Both I noticed my skin was really healthy. Josh Axe My sinuses were more clear. I mean, a little bit of that is the salt and what salt does for moving lung chi and moving the body. But part of it is these phages and these microorganisms in the ocean, they have anti-pathogenic effects, cleansing effects. And so it's, I mean, the ocean is just, you know, incredibly healing. Dr. Mindy Yeah. Even I started to look into the makeup of saltwater and saltwater is the same mineral makeup as our blood. Josh Axe Oh, wow. Wow. So it's crazy. Dr. Mindy Like when you stop and you look at how nature heals, like we've been given the greatest medicine cabinet. We just have to get out of our homes to go do that. Both So I did not know that about phages. Dr. Mindy And, you know, I'm sure just to fill the audience in, phages were quite in vogue before antibiotics came in and they were actually a more effective antibiotic. If we had stuck really studying phages, we would be in a really different place than we are with all the antibiotic use. Both So I didn't know that. Dr. Mindy It was really interesting. So tell me, as we look at these hallmarks, if I'm 45, 55 years old, and I want to slow the aging process down and have more functionality as I age, do we have a toolbox of best practices? Both Like you absolutely need to make sure that you are doing these things. Dr. Mindy I think we definitely have put nature in the toolbox, but what else would go in that toolbox? Josh Axe Well, let's talk about diet and then maybe we can talk about supplementation. And then there's even movement, you know, would be great to discuss as well. You know, I think dietarily, you know, you want to do food. So this gets into, I'll talk about Chinese medicine here again and then correlate it to Western. They have this thing we call qi, yin, and yang. Okay. Qi is really connected to our mitochondria. That would be ATP production. So I remember when I first heard some of these words, I'm like, that sounds out there. What is yin and yang? And she, they're just sort of these ancient medical words in Asia. And she is really, again, it's your cellular energy. That's really what it is. And boosting cellular energy is incredibly important. It's also incredibly important to build the yin. Now, this is really important for women's hormonal health. Both This is really tied to like when a woman goes through menopause, you have the yin and yang, Josh Axe and this is really tied to progesterone, estrogen. Yin is responsible for cooling the body and moistening the body. Both And this is why women get hot flashes. Josh Axe In Chinese medicine, they'll say you have a kidney yang or adrenal yang deficiency, or I'm sorry, yin deficiency, because when estrogen and progesterone get too low, that's really part of what causes the body to not be able to moisten and cool itself, Both hence hot flashes and some of the other symptoms. So there are foods in Chinese medicine, for instance, Josh Axe that are yin-building foods that bring moisture and coolness. Both Yams and purple sweet potatoes are one great example of that. Josh Axe There's also certain seeds like sesame and pumpkin. There's a lot of these natural progesterone boosters. Flax seeds are gray. Of course, that's more estrogen. Dr. Mindy Those are all yin? Those are all yin-producing? Josh Axe Well, a flax is very yin. Now, pumpkin seeds, because the zinc content, probably leans more yang, and so do pistachios and some of the others. But you want to actually build both. But those are good. And then, of course, there's the herbs. Black cohosh is very yin building where wild yam is more of that progesterone supportive. But my point there is we want to support chi. We want to support and we also want to support getting the body enough nutrients to function properly and also eating certain foods that support the detoxification process. So like part of me, to simplify it, longevity is about addressing toxicity, deficiency, and having enough energy to support both the detoxification and the rebuilding process of the cells. So some of the best foods for those categorically, as we talk about cellular energy, one surprising one for a lot of people is pomegranates. You know, pomegranates are a food incredibly high in allergic acid. And now, and I do want to say this. So allergic acid is the number one thing that can be converted into something called urolithin A. There's actually multiple urolithins. Both There's urolithin B, C, D, and E as well. Josh Axe But these are compounds that have been tied to sort of mitochondrial recycling and creating new mitochondria for the cells. So that is really powerful. And there are other foods that contain allergic acid. Both really raspberries, walnuts, and pecans are probably the next highest in certain types of tea, Josh Axe herbal tea. But that's a really great food for that. And then a lot of mushrooms would fall into that category as well of cellular energy. And then just in addition, foods that are going to move the blood like beets, like boosting nitric oxide, that's also very good for moving cellular energy there as well. And then foods that are going to support kind of rebuilding Both the body. I think meats, but specifically organ meats, are at the very top of the list. I think that's something we just really, really missed out on what our ancient ancestors did is getting Josh Axe organ meats. In fact, if somebody would have gone into an ancient apothecary, which is a pharmacy, you would have found herbs, spices, mushrooms, and organs and glands. That's what you found in there. But I think getting more meat, more protein, that's more anabolic in nature, supporting yang. I think you want to get a lot of good organic meat and then a lot of fruits and vegetables. And then there are other things like some healthy fats. Olive oil is going to be very high on that list. Both That's going to be great as well. Josh Axe But yeah, and I think, you know, it's interesting. I think almost everyone can agree, not everyone, almost everyone, that olive oil is like the perfect oil. Dr. Mindy Oh, yeah. Josh Axe Oil, you know. Dr. Mindy Just put it on everything. I drizzle it on every meal. Josh Axe Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Mindy And it's like, do what the people do that are living a long time. It's what they're using in Asia. Josh Axe You know, probably secondary, they'll probably use sesame oil, but they do use a lot, a lot of olive oil. And so I think longevity food-wise, focus on the really nutrient-dense foods. The pomegranates and the berries are probably at the top of the list. Focus on the vegetables, the green leafies and the cruciferous. Now, if you're eating vegetables, I actually believe most of the time they should be steamed or cooked, especially cruciferous. I mean, that's really the big category. I don't, part of it is due to the goitrogens and just the difficulty of digestibility of cruciferous that are not cooked. But I would say those are the other category. And then the wild organic meat, the wild caught salmon, the grass fed beef. And then again, you got some of those fats you got to get in there. But to me, those are probably the greatest longevity foods out there. Dr. Mindy Yeah, and it's not complicated. This is what I keep saying to people. It's like we've complicated health, and when you go back and look at some of these ancient strategies, it's not complicated. One question I have on that, do you care what kind of farm it comes from? So if I decide I'm going to start to eat more beets or I'm going to get more pomegranates and I'm not paying attention if it's organic, non-organic, if it came from a regenerative farm, do these things actually matter for the nutrient quality? Josh Axe it does but let me also throw out there there is a hierarchy and i also want to also be realistic with everyone's schedule because to your point one of the things i've learned over the years is being a practitioner as i know you've learned it's like i want to give somebody as much as they can handle but i don't want to give them so many things that it's like they just break down under the load of it's like get rid of every last thing and you could only eat these three things from this you Both No farming that's regenerative organic. So here's what I would say. Josh Axe The most important foods for you to buy organic are meat and dairy. It's the most important. And also, and dairy is a whole other topic. But when it comes to meat and dairy, if you have a cow and it's eating foods that are loaded with genetically modified feed and glyphosate and it's being injected with steroids and growth hormones and it's not fed grass, I mean, all those things. you're going to have meat that's sick. Both It's going to be higher in omega-6s. Josh Axe There's all kinds of issues there. Meat and dairy, if you're going to invest in something organic and from a good farm, that's number one. After that, it's really the things that are more related to the dirty dozen. Both It's things that you can't take the peel off. For instance, eating lettuce organically is more important Josh Axe than eating a pomegranate organically because you're not eating the peel of the pomegranate. The glyphosate isn't typically going to get all the way to the seeds versus it will stay on the outer part of the skin. So it's really not as much of an issue there. By the way, there was a really good study that was done twice. And they found that when you're washing fruits and vegetables, if you wash them for one minute with baking soda, it got rid of over 90% of the pesticides. One study said 99%. The other one said 90%. I want to say 7%. But so just one quick easy hack at home, baking soda is cheap. Throw it in there, wash your fruits, keep it in there for 30 seconds to a minute, and you're going to get rid of a lot of pesticides that way. Both That's amazing. Josh Axe Now, when you can buy locally or regionally, the foods are typically more fresh. And the longer something gets to the point where it's ripe, if it's ripened on the vine rather than ripened on a truck or in a store, it's going to be more nutrient-dense. That's why, and Mindy, you might have seen this. There's a couple studies on showing that frozen berries are more nutrient-dense than buying fresh berries. Dr. Mindy I've heard that. And fish, too, better omit because they freeze it on the boat. Josh Axe That's right. So they're immediately freezing it, sort of maintaining its nutritional value versus letting it. Because a lot of fruit, you know, let's say I'm here in Tennessee. We get fruit at some stores from California. Well, by the time it gets here and you eat it, sometimes it's two weeks later. I'm not going to get into the mold issue. I mean, how many of us have bought raspberries or blackberries? Dr. Mindy Oh, they always go moldy. And they're molded. Josh Axe Part of that is just the time and then the acidity. That's why if you actually wash those in baking soda, they'll last a lot longer too. Your berries won't mold as quickly. But yeah, so I would say those are some things to consider when it comes to the important. But there's no doubt things that are riper, things that are more local, things that are free of chemicals are better for us. And of course, again, the more local and fresh it is, typically the more new. And the soil is important, right? I mean, you've quoted the studies. One study found that quite a few of produce today is approximately has 40% less nutrients. I mean, that's a lot. Dr. Mindy That's crazy, yeah. No, I've heard like you have to eat like 10 heads of broccoli, you know, compared to your grandma that had a cup of broccoli, you know, centuries ago, you know, years ago, decades ago. It's really the nutrient quality. And they've even come up with, I've, where they're trying to come up with a scanner that would scan over your meal and it would actually tell you the nutrient amounts in there. Josh Axe Oh, wow. Dr. Mindy It hasn't come to market yet, but we've been following the development of that, which would Josh Axe be really helpful. Dr. Mindy Yeah. Josh Axe Yeah, remember there is a scanner they can do on humans looking at some of the antioxidant content in your skin. So it makes sense that they could do that with fruits and vegetables. I love that. Dr. Mindy That'll be amazing. Talk to me a little bit about toxins because I think that, I mean, you and I have both studied under Dr. Daniel Pompa. We have been immersed in detoxing for a very long time. And I think we don't think about toxins until we're sick or we're aging. So what toxins do we need to think about and what are the best practices for getting them out of us? Josh Axe Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And let me say this about toxicity. One, toxicity is incredibly important. I do want to mention though, I think for some people, you know, let me just, this is more of a philosophically. I see a lot of people that have a toxicity or an infection issue and they just focus on killing the infection or getting rid of the metal via taking some, something like a binder. I think the first thing people should focus on when it comes to detoxifying is strengthening their own body and internal system. And your body will heal and detoxify itself. So that's just one thing I do want to mention philosophically if you are looking to detoxify. I've had people detox because their body couldn't handle, especially their gut or liver pathway. Both So just think about that. Josh Axe So I would say the biggest sources of toxins are, let me throw out some different categories. I'm just kind of doing this on the fly. Like we have sort of metabolic toxins in a way. You know, I think about sugar today. Like sugar is a metabolic toxin and it's overburdening your pancreas and your liver that's causing a major issue, right? So you have these metabolic toxins like sugar. We have environmental toxins, of course. Both I'm going to throw pesticides on that list too, along with many others. Josh Axe Of course, again, glyphosate is the most referenced one probably for a lot of people. There are several studies showing that glyphosate really creates major alterations to the gut microbiome of killing good bacteria and altering that gut flora. So I think that's one to be noted. Of course, we have heavy metals. Both That's another category that people need to be careful of. Josh Axe But I think the biggest exposure. And then one other that people typically don't throw in, but I think, well, let me throw two more in. infections can act as toxins to the body, whether, I mean, mold is kind of that borderline one, but mold would be a case of that, but even Lyme and different types of viral infections. And then the last one here, and we don't need to get into this much, but part of it also is like Both toxic thoughts. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You know, there are a lot of people and listen, I understand why, Josh Axe but if you're living with a victim mentality or you're beating up yourself and you might find this interesting. In Chinese medicine, they would say a big root of autoimmune disease is negative self-talk. If you're verbally abusing yourself or mentally abusing yourself, why did I do that? I'm no good. If you have really low self-esteem and you're always beating yourself up, because what's happening in autoimmunity is your body is attacking itself, Both its own tissues. And there's also a new type of medicine. People might have heard, it's not that Josh Axe new, but German new medicine that's also taking a look and glance at this as well. There's another Both book on this, but the body keeps score, but there's all these ideas around sort of our mental, Josh Axe spiritual, and emotional health really impacting our physical health. And they even say things like unforgiveness is like, like you think you're hurting the other person, but it's like drinking your own poison. So I do think that's the other toxin to look at. But when it comes to detoxification, what I encourage people to do is number one, let's strengthen your own system. There are foods that Dr. Mindy do that. Yeah. I was going to say, walk us through those foods. Yeah. So, so I, you know, Josh Axe first and foremost, we talked about this earlier, like there are foods that are more anabolic, like meat and their foods that are more catabolic, which is autophagy, which this, that your lysosomes in your cells are really what's responsible for cellular detoxification is those lysosomes. But, but, you know, vegetables are the best for that. Okay. Both They're going to be at the very top along with certain herbals. Josh Axe So vegetables, cruciferous vegetables, we all know this, but the liver is very important for hormonal health. Both It really helps us with balancing out estrogen levels, for instance. Josh Axe So that's really important. And the green leafies, a lot of the chlorophyll, the magnesium, those nutrients, B vitamins are very good for the liver detoxification pathways. But vegetables, number one. My favorite fruit, this might surprise some people when it comes to detoxification because it's just so basic. Dr. Mindy are apples. Apples. An apple a day. There's something to that. Josh Axe Yeah. You know, apples are really high in pectin and pectin is a natural binder. Now, citrus pectin has gotten more popularity due to some studies on, I think, on cancer. And that is beneficial too. But apple pectin is a natural binder in cleanser of the colon. And so really, apples are really, really good detoxifier along with a lot of other fruit. Again, I would say Blueberries are great. We talked about pomegranates a little bit. Soursop, this is one that's maybe not too popular, has anti-cancer benefits and cellular cleansing benefits. But I would just say apples would be good. So it's vegetables, it's apples. Liver. Dr. Mindy I mean, eating organ meats or taking those- Like heals like. Yeah, go ahead. Josh Axe That's right. Dr. Mindy Yeah, so that's that Chinese. Josh Axe So you said it. So like supports like is another one, Chinese medicine principle, that if you want to support an organ, eat an organ. Or if you want to support an organ, eat a food that looks like that organ. So you want to support your blood, eat beets. You want to support your eyes, eat carrots. That sort of ideal. But yeah, liver. I mean, and you know, another, yeah, liver would be the top one for overall detoxification. I mean, there are some other good ones though as well. Now, this is a little bit more leaning immune system. Thymus gland has been used for many years for boosting the immune system and for immune detoxification and support. But I would say liver, fruits, and vegetables. You know what's interesting about that? If you've heard of, I know, of course, you've heard of it, but your audience, of Gershon therapy. You know, Max Gershon, his original protocol was basically vegetable juices, fruit, specifically apples, and raw beef liver. In the same drink? Dr. Mindy Or did he do them separate? Josh Axe Well, it changed over the years. She started off with juicing liver. So it was actually liver juice. And then they started doing it raw. And then later on, it was steamed. And then later on, some of the vegans got in there. Both And they're like, no, liver can't be on here after he died. And then they eventually brought it back. Josh Axe And they did desiccated liver tablets on the therapy. But yeah, actually liver. And listen, if you just don't like the taste of liver, you can buy desiccated liver tablets or capsules that are still really beneficial. And then I would say, you know, probably wild caught fish, like salmon, you know, those omegas are, are incredibly powerful. Of course, they're just reducing inflammation, but also at healing the cell membrane. That's a part of detoxification. That's important. Egg yolks are also great. They're really high in these phospholipids that are great because your cells, all that outer membrane is made of a mixture of about 90% of it is fat and protein. And so, and that really a lot you want, and that allows things to pass in and out of the cells like oxygen and nutrients and some other things. So, so getting the healthy fats, the fruits, the vegetables, and some of the organic meat, especially like liver high in the B vitamins. I think those are probably the best detoxifying foods. Dr. Mindy Yeah, that was brilliant. So well said. And, and, you know, as you were talking, I was thinking, like I, my brain completely lines up with what you're saying. And why would we rather reach for a supplement? Why would we rather reach for a medication? Why would we rather just take our chance with some horrific chronic disease that is going to really affect the quality of our life and may end our life earlier than to actually list what you just talked about, like take, Write it all down and go to the market and make sure that on a regular basis you are getting that. Like, why is that so difficult? And I'm sure you're wondering the same thing, but you have. So I don't understand why we don't lean into that. Josh Axe Well, I think part of it, it almost goes back to what you pointed out earlier is this sort of, you know, when we look at Asian culture and we gratify wisdom and gray hair and age and the wisdom that comes with it, you know, that's something going on culturally. I think in America, when you look at what people, what most people would put in the place of God or worship, it's money, it's economics. And the other thing is speed. Both So I think in American culture, it's about finance. Josh Axe Like it's about monetary gain and how fast can I do it? And so part of that puts your health on a back burner. I mean, there's no doubt when you go to Asia. And by the way, the recent statistics on America's overall health, we're ranking around number 70. Dr. Mindy Oh, yeah. We're horrible. We're horrible. Josh Axe I mean, Japan's like one or two. And so when you're just comparing it, in Japan, one, they're taking more time when they eat. Both They're eating more whole meals. Josh Axe Not everything's about speed. If everything's about speed, you're going to do DoorDash every meal. You're going to do fast food. You're going to do ultra-processed foods. And if that's a bigger priority. Dr. Mindy You know what? It's interesting you bring up the speed thing. I really love that. And I know that you fast. I can tell you that the more fasting I do, the less hangry I am. So when I look at a meal and between fasting and eating very much like you were talking about, I never get in that place that I'm so hungry that I need food ASAP or I'm going to pass out or I'm going to kill somebody. So I think there's like tied into that is this metabolic dysfunction from all the ultra processed foods. And so now all of a sudden speed of getting the food to my door becomes incredibly important because I can't go long periods without food. Josh Axe Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think you're totally right. Yeah. There are, yeah, there, there are numerous benefits of just cutting down that eating window, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and fasting there as well. But yeah, yeah, it's funny when I was younger, yeah, if I didn't have a meal, I was so cranky today, I could miss a meal and just not even, you know, hardly notice. Dr. Mindy All the time, all the time. Like I was traveling the other day and I was like, when am I going to get food? And I thought, I don't think until I get home tonight. Okay. That was fine. It wasn't, it wasn't a panic. So, so I think that like the, the crazy thing, and I'm sure you go there in your mind, the more I study this, the more I'm like, oh, this is a problem. And this is a problem. And this is a problem. And they're all like meshed together. And this is why we are number 70, because our culture doesn't support health. It's not just a food dye issue or, you know, you know, whatever. Like there's so much more to it. And you just brought up a really good point. Josh Axe Yeah. Yeah. Well, again, you know, like I was, I am a, again, I know everybody has different opinions on this. I was very happy when RFK got in because he's trying to do some things that more align with what I've hoped we would do in the whole health space for a while. But, yeah, listen, food dyes, you know, they can cause some minor issues. Now, for a few small select people, they can cause major issues. Like, I've worked with so many kids with ADHD, and there's no doubt when we got rid of food dyes and some of those things, we saw improvements. Dr. Mindy Oh, of course. Josh Axe But the ultra-processed food, the sugars and the heavily processed oils, I mean, those are, again, just the overconsumption of processed carbs. I mean, that's the single biggest problem. And that's the mainstay of the American diet, unfortunately. Both But people are getting better. Dr. Mindy But then, you know, and I want to move on to movement here in a second. But again, the complexity of the problem, because yes, like the focus of cleaning up our food system that RFK is putting his attention on is beautiful. But meanwhile, Trump is overturning pesticide laws and glyphosate is is there's no regulation of how do we square those two? Josh Axe Well, you know, I think, you know, when it comes to Robert F. Kennedy, I have the I've had the opportunity to go to D.C. and meet with some people and be somewhat involved over there. And he's doing it. I'll just say he is doing a really great job. He is working tirelessly. Part of the problem is there's so many things he wants to change. I mean, there's so many things. And then you still have these, the donor. And just to be quite frank, I don't think, you know, Donald Trump is, he doesn't know what Robert F. Kennedy knows. He's not as educated. Both And so, you know, it's just, I think that's part of the problem. Josh Axe There's certain things, like when he came out, we had the whole thing about Tylenol. And yeah. Dr. Mindy And so it's just not his expertise. Josh Axe Well, and so we'll move on to exercise. Dr. Mindy But I do think this is a really interesting, it's the nuance. This is what like I keep trying to train people. We've got to think about health. You need an ethos. You need a formula to think about health because it's multifaceted. And so I think one of the things that is difficult is that the acetaminophen, I like you, I really I worked with a lot of kids that were normal one day and then they went and got a new set of vaccines. And the next day, the parent came into my office and said, they're not talking. Both Like, I witnessed that right before my eyes. But that didn't happen with every child. That didn't Dr. Mindy happen with every child. So with the acetaminophen thing that was so interesting is like, yeah, you could follow the science. I watched what a lot of people said. But it's not there's not a one Both to one connection here. And what and I think that's where the media took it. And it ties into Dr. Mindy what we're talking about on longevity, that this is why you can't just do one biohack or start eating beets on a regular basis or add in organ meat every day. There's a system, an ecosystem of health that once you learn how to click into it, you start to see that health becomes very effortless. And you and I, our patients, our following, we've clicked into it, but we got to get out of the one-to-one thoughts. Well, and to your point, we were talking about Josh Axe Darshan Shah earlier, and he was on my podcast, and we were having this conversation, and it was that, you know what makes a really good health practitioner? Like somebody that I would send my family to, and it's someone like you, and it's this, it's that I'm creating something personalized just for you because you're a unique being. There's no one else like you on the earth. And this is why it drives me crazy when you have doctors who are like, I'm on the, like solely, I'm not talking about just, Hey, this, I use this with some patients, but everyone needs to be keto. Everyone needs to be carnivore. Everyone needs to be vegan. It's like, and I learned this via partly Chinese medicine. It's that no, everybody needs a unique protocol. And I learned this early on in practice. Cause it's like, I would have a patient coming with inflammatory bowel disease. Yep. And I realized early on, oh, I can't have them eat salads. Like they need to eat all cooked food, lots of soups, ginger, herbal tea. That's for that person. But I'd have someone come with cancer and it's like, well, I'm going to do some raw food. And so, you know, very, very different diets. And so I think that what people also need to understand is just because your friend did carnivore or whatever, doesn't mean that's the best diet for you. Like you're very, and you know this because you take care of so many women hormonally and that can be so different, especially between, you know, you know, you know, pre-menopause, post-menopause, I mean, you know, changes, monthly cycle. I mean, they're women's hormones also make it so much different. Even times, even sometimes eating different foods on different days of the month. You got it. Yep. As you've taught. So, so I do think one of the things that I want to encourage people to do, and I think this comes with supporting your longevity is trying to cultivate greater physiological awareness, greater awareness of how your body's responding to different foods and different things and seeing what works for you. And I think that's important. That's not to say that most people can't really benefit from salmon and extra virgin olive oil and blueberries, right? Both I think there are foods that most people can benefit from. Josh Axe But also when you're eating certain things, really continue to just try and fine tune and notice what, you know, what's going to work for you and your unique biology. Dr. Mindy Yeah, that's so well said. Okay, talk to me about movement because I can tell you the other thing that I saw in my clinical practice was that these women who were high performers, exercising all the time, Spartan racer, CrossFitters, they would come in with these injuries that never went away. And I'll never forget like arguing with a 50 year old crossfitting woman that I was like, you have to stop crossfitting. And she's like, no, I'm not going to. And so she kept injuring herself. So in age like a girl, I brought forward the idea that we need to change our exercise as we age. We need to look at this very different. So I'm very curious of your opinion of aging through the lens of longevity. Josh Axe Yeah. Yeah. I know we're going to align here as well. So just literally yesterday, I was in the gym here in Nashville. And there's a woman there. She's probably 39 going on about 39, 40. And I was having a conversation with her and she wants to have another baby. And she's training for a marathon. And then I see her in the gym working out an hour and a half a day. That's not counting her running. And she's like, you know, I noticed from all my symptoms, I think I self-diagnosed myself with endometriosis. Okay. And, and I'm like, well, like it's, you really have a choice. Like either you can really, I know we can get you really healthy and you can have a baby or, oh no, here's what she told me afterwards. She's like, yeah, the marathon's in two weeks. But then I was thinking about doing a half Ironman and I was like, I'm like, I'm like, there's really a choice here. Like, you know, in terms of what you want to do. Okay. Because, you know, half Ironman training at 40 years old with your body already depleted with these symptoms and trying to have a baby. I'm like, it's, you know, it's so all that being said, a lot of people are doing types of exercise that are, they're aging exercise. You're aging yourself. We know this because you and I have taught this for so long, but long distance cardio is at the very, very top of the list. You know, it's really hard on your gut. It's really hard on your immune system. It's hard on everything, your hormones, cortisol staying higher. So that's not the right type of exercise. The other thing is to the point of CrossFit, when you are doing exercise to where you're failing constantly and for speed, when your muscles fail, let me, everyone just to think about this. When you go till failure with your muscles, what has to take over once your muscle fails? Your ligaments, your tendons, the actual connective tissue, your joint. So anytime you go to the point to where you're beyond failure. You're injuring your ligaments and tendons and connective tissue. And if you're doing it for speed, there's 0% chance you're doing it in proper form the entire time. Both And so I really encourage, Josh Axe like at this point, Mindy, when I go to the gym, Both it's about functional fitness. Me too. Josh Axe Yeah, I do a lot of weight training, but I'm doing like lunges in a way that a physical therapist really showed me how to move my body and spine and keeping my back in a very specific position. I'm doing body weight squats with maybe kettlebells. I mean, so I'm doing things because I want to be active when I'm 100 years old. Dr. Mindy Like I'm exercising for longevity right now. So I love that. Thank you for bringing that up. My 89-year-old dad, he's 89, and about five years ago, he had to have knee replacement. And so I went over to his house after the surgery, and I was trying to help him out of the chair. and he couldn't lift himself out of the chair. Both He couldn't do like a tricep dip basically is what it was. Dr. Mindy And so I told him when we got done, I was like, once you're healed, you're going to start doing tricep dips because what happens if you end up on the ground? Dr. Mindy Like, how are you going to get up? Both And I think we don't tend to think about that Dr. Mindy at like 40 or 50. Like, hopefully we're not as obsessed with how we're looking in the mirror. Although we always want you to like what you see when that's coming back at you. But functionality needs to be the thing. Like we need to double down on that. The other thing I want to say that I don't know if you, did you see this 80-year-old woman who just ran an Ironman? This was like this weekend. Josh Axe I think I just saw the caption on social media. I didn't read up on it at all, but. So I sat there and I was like, okay, Dr. Mindy so I know everything I've studied about post-menopausal women, you have the capability to do that, but that's not good. That is not good. I mean, like I want to know what, like you said, what are the other costs of her being able to do an Ironman? So it's really interesting. I really think our movement needs to change when we age. Yeah. And you just said Josh Axe something I think that's so important for people. And this is wisdom. We talked about wisdom earlier. Wisdom is knowing what the trade-offs and the costs are. Because I see people doing this all the time saying, you should do this, you should do this. Okay, but what is it going to cost you? Because, you know, you going out and doing an Ironman triathlon, is it going to cost you your knee health? Maybe now you're not going to be able to walk three years earlier because of the amount of damage you did by all the – because it's not just doing the Ironman. It's the training you did for the Ironman. Both That's right. Josh Axe And listen, that's an amazing feat. I think we could all look at that and say, wow, that's incredible. Dr. Mindy Of course. Josh Axe But with that, just be aware. And listen, as long as you know the cost, if you feel like that cost is worth it. But I do think people need to learn more. Because listen, I injured myself. I'll tell you just a quick story. And then I'd love to touch on some more exercise principles. I learned so much about longevity because of this exact same thing we're talking about now. I, 10 years ago, did CrossFit for a year. And by the way, I'm not built to do CrossFit. I did triathlons. I mean, I'm fairly fit, but I'm a little bit more thinner wrists and midsection and things. Most of the people doing CrossFit and Olympic lifting, they're like small, very short, really stocky people. And so when I did this, I was doing cleans for time. Again, this is so dumb. I'm embarrassed even saying it. I'm doing cleans, Olympic lifts for time in CrossFit. And listen, it was fun, but I ended up really pulling something in my back really bad. Dr. Mindy And then a couple of weeks later I was lifting and I heard a pop. Oh no. Josh Axe And, and this was 10 years ago. And I, I herniated my L4, L5 and L5 S1 discs. And I had pain. I was in bed for two weeks. Couldn't move. Major pain. And Mindy for years, years, I suffered with just terrible chronic back pain. Finally. And I tried, yeah, I tried so many things to get well. Yeah. PT, chiropractic, red light. I mean, you name it. And then I got turned on to stem cell therapy and I went and got stem cell done. They pulled from my own bone marrow, re-injected it. So natural procedure. And I felt like 70% better. I was like, wow, this is really like amazing. And then a few, this was about three years ago and I was about 95% better. Okay. But I just had this little nagging issue left. I thought I'm going to get it done again. Well, I went in and My wife and I were in Puerto Rico at the time, got the injection done. Again, natural, my own stem cells, but something went wrong. And I felt worse and worse and worse to the point where I had to wear a back brace. And I thought, gosh, what's going on here? Finally, it got to some point I could barely get out of bed. Then one day I woke up, I could not get out of bed. The pain was so excruciating. Wow. I had to call an ambulance. They came and picked me up, brought me to the hospital, took an MRI, got the report back. So I have a spinal infection in my disc, in my bone, my entire L5 vertebra was infected. And there was an abscess growing by my spinal cord of the infection. Dr. Mindy It was called osteomyelitis. Josh Axe So I had to get on a flight from Puerto Rico, a private plane, like flew me, like in a gurney, they put me in a gurney, flew me there. I met with an infectious disease doc and he said, Josh, he said, listen, I'm going to be honest with you. He said, this could kill you. It's spread so far. He said, most likely you're going to be permanently disabled. He said, we'll have to put rods in your spine. And he said, your best case scenario is you're going to have chronic pain every day and you'll be the first person to know when bad weather goes through. That's what he told me. Both Word for word. Josh Axe And I had about 24 to 48 hours where honestly, I felt like my life was over. I thought, oh my, like just how could this happen? Dr. Mindy How did we get here? Yeah. Josh Axe Yeah. So, I mean, it was just this one in like literally one and half a million chance. I look statistically that you could get an infection with this sort of thing. So, and I ended up, again, I was, it was such a mental and spiritual battle, but then I just had this sense of calm and peace of knowing, you know what? I can't control the outcome, but I can do everything I can to heal. And so I read a study on hyperbaric chambers and all kinds of things, diet and all these sort of therapies. So I started getting a hyperbaric chamber for two hours a day, every day. Because there's a study that said you can cut down your antibiotic time by like 75%. Both They were telling me I'd have to be on antibiotics for three months. Josh Axe I got on them for four weeks. And then I started doing like, you know, these IVs of, you know, methylene blue and Jensen silver and ozone and all kinds of things. The only thing I ate, I pretty much ate wild salmon and berries and steamed vegetables. Like that was the majority of my diet. And I went through this whole program for healing. Now, here's the crazy part. The disc and the bone in those areas have almost no blood supply. So I didn't walk for 10 months on my own and then two months on a walker. Both So I didn't walk on my own for a year, full year. Josh Axe This is just two and a half years ago. Most people didn't know I went through this. And I just kept doing everything I could. And you know what I read at the time? I just kept reading, how do I regenerate cells? How do I support cellular regeneration and radical healing of areas? And that's why I was in the hyperbaric chamber. I was doing everything I can to drive blood flow and oxygen to my disc. Dr. Mindy It's beautiful. Josh Axe And so I did this, and I'm excited to say after a year of not walking, I was able to start walking again. Now I'm back to 100%. I don't have pain every day. I don't have any pain. I'm able to, you know, I'm lifting weights. I'm throwing my two-year-old daughter in the air in the pool. Both you know, seven feet in the air. She loves it, you know, working out and I feel great. You know, Josh Axe I feel like I'm in the best shape of my life, but a big part of it was really studying cellular Both regeneration and cellular healing. And what do I need to do? And it was everything from the Josh Axe dietary protocol to things like the hyperbaric chamber to my mindset and believing and knowing, like activating the placebo effect. I mean, the placebo effect is amazing. I mean, when you look at it. Yeah. So, so I, I went back and read about this and started writing about it, but you know, during, I think it was world war one, they were giving the fallen soldiers morphine and they ran out. And these are, I mean, these are men that have lost, they lost limbs. I mean, the excruciating pain. Well, the physician, when they ran out, he told the nurse, he said, listen, we got to give them something, fill that with saline solution and just inject them and tell them it's morphine. Tell them. Yeah. The crazy part is 40% of those soldiers had the same pain relief as if they were getting morphine. Dr. Mindy Yeah. Josh Axe And to think that our brains can create these neurochemicals that have the same pain-relieving power as the most powerful pain-relieving drug or morphine, that's really amazing. And so I just started reading and thinking about, like, I would visualize myself, you know, running and swimming and playing with my two daughters and doing all these things. And I really think that was an important part of me healing as well. And there's some great, you've probably seen Bruce Lipton, right? Dr. Mindy Oh, yeah. No, this is a lot of Bruce's work. Josh Axe I went back and read his book and like biology belief. And like, I really sort of activated and started seeing myself like, you know, young and youthful. And I think that was a part of my healing as well. Dr. Mindy You know what I'm thinking is that was quite a story. And thank you for sharing it. I, you know, I was intimately connected to Dr. Pompa and his group for many years. And I had heard that you were hurting and I never heard the complete story. Both So it's really interesting to hear it from your mouth. Dr. Mindy But what I'm thinking about is going back to these environments that we put ourselves in, the way in which we approach taking care of this human frame that we're blessed to walk around in. And there's this, I think you and I would both agree that what we think is health and the path to health is actually probably the opposite. So like everybody would think CrossFit is a very healthy thing to do. But look at what happens when you do it to an extreme. And then when you went to go heal, what I heard in that is there was another environment you put yourself in. So you took yourself out of one environment and you put yourself in a different environment. And perhaps that sums like everything you and I teach up is like what environments are you putting yourself in? Because you can't heal in the same environment that made you sick. It's just not possible. Josh Axe I love that you're saying this, Dr. Mindy, because, I mean, by the way, this is the philosophical difference between Western conventional medicine and functional medicine slash ancient forms of medicine like TCM. It's the difference. And one was Louis Pasteur, who created pasteurization, and germs create disease, so we got to kill the germs, versus Antoine Bichamp, who said, no, it's your environment. And he used the word terrain. Both We have to change the terrain, which is kind of like our bodies are a garden. Josh Axe And in order for a flower or a plant or anything to grow, we need really good soil. We need water. We need light. Again, it's an environment as you're sharing. And this same principle holds true. If I have a patient come in with, let's say, a hormonal issue like hypothyroidism, my entire mindset is, how do I change that environment? That's one of the things herbs do. Both You know, in Chinese medicine, they would say hypothyroidism is a qi and yang deficiency. Josh Axe So it's a issue where you don't have enough cellular energy, and it's an issue where your body's not anabolic enough. Well, how do we fix that? Well, ashwagandha is a qi and anabolic herb. So does rhodiola rosea. What are some of the nutrients needed to change the environment? Well, we need selenium, and we need certain methylated B vitamins, and we need, you know, even like BPC-157, Both or some of these peptides. Josh Axe So creating a protocol, and to your point, you said this earlier, it's typically not one thing. It's not one pill or one food. It's a protocol of the right foods, right herbs, right lifestyle adjustments and sometimes therapies that get your body in an environment where it's watered, it's got sunlight, it's got nutrients in the soil, so now you can reverse that medical condition. You can heal. And the same principle is true for longevity. Dr. Mindy So, you know, again, now you got me thinking on deeper stuff. So I did actually a presentation to my whole patient base on the differences between vitalism and that infectious disease approach. Both Like, is it the infection or is it the host? Dr. Mindy And I went in and looked at Bochamp and Pasteur and compared them. And what most people don't know is that prior to the penicillin being discovered, we didn't know if it was the host or the infection that was the problem. And what happened in this controversy was we went into a pandemic, which we all now have a personal experience with this. And so we went into the Spanish flu pandemic, and then everybody was like, oh, wait, it must be the infection, not the host. And then two years after we came out of that pandemic, penicillin was created. And all of a sudden, that was the hero of the moment. And so the whole health conversation around 1920 dramatically changed because of the pandemic and the influx of or this discovery of Josh Axe penicillin. And we have not moved from that place. Yeah, it's insane. Part of the problem with our whole medical system is, is that we are trying to it's not healthcare, it's disease care, We're trying to use a system that should be used for emergencies for healthcare. In fact, I think primary care, what people call primary care today, really should be secondary care. If you're sick, the first thing you should do, or not if you're sick, just generally on a regular basis, the people you should be seeing is a doctor of functional medicine or somebody who is recommending dietary changes and lifestyle changes and herbs and vitamins and those things. And then if you do that for years and you still have a problem, well, now maybe we do some pharmaceutical intervention if there's an emergency. But outside of that, that's really what the whole system should look like. Dr. Mindy Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Well, I could talk to you for hours. And I love what we co-created here. Now I'm actually thinking more just about the ecosystems and environments that we put us in and that that's healing us or building disease. It's as simple as that. So, and I, and I, again, like in, like really, truly, like I'm in admiration of you started a health movement on social media and I watched it and you get credit for it. I know you're not asking for credit for it, but so many of us are standing in our social media platforms because you were the first to go out and really bring all of this to the world. So I just, I have to thank you for that because you deserve, you deserve every accolade you can possibly get for that. and I really appreciate it. Josh Axe So how do people find you? Where do they find your work? Yeah, well, one, thanks for the kind words. One, you can check out my podcast. I cover a lot of great topics. Again, Dr. Mindy, I know you're coming on here as well. So that's on YouTube. It's on Apple, Spotify, but it's just the Dr. Josh Axe Show. And then you also find me on social media. It's Dr. Josh Axe. I'm really active on Instagram and YouTube, probably more than anywhere. I'm pretty active on Facebook too. So those are some of the best places to find me. And again, thanks so much for having me on. I love talking to like-minded physicians who are also like, you're doing amazing things in the world. And so thanks again for having me on, Dr. Mindy. Dr. Mindy Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Josh. Thank you so much for joining me in today's episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we'd love to know about it. So please leave us a review, share it with your friends, and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.