The New Rules of Exercise for Menopause with Dr. Stacy Sims (a timely re-release)

Some people feel fantastic when they first wake up.Yeah, that's great.But if you're someone who gets more energy and motivation as the day goes on, well, maybe you wanna try to fit in your 20 to 30 minutes later in the day.So we have to really look at how does your- Yeah.your life work.And then, of course, you have all your other commitments over it.So if you're a night person and youonly time you have to work out is in the morning, then we have to work with that too.Dr. Mindy here.Your body is in a- In a war zone.Yeah.Different parts of the brain get activated depending upon how stressed you are.When you look at it from that inflammatory- That's interesting.I mean, uh, that has some merit to it for sure.And you can't control everything.I'd say.And what about the, uh, a woman who is not pregnant, but she's aimingSo I just wanna say welcome to my online home.I'm so happy to have you here, and I'm so excited for this conversation.So thank you, Stacey.I'm so happy you're here.Yeah, thanks.I'm in the confines of my mother's office.hey-it's an estate.I'm excited to be here.Y- yeah.Great, great conversations.I mean, think about it, how many great conversations have women had in the bathroom?I know.Waiting in line in the bathroom or when everybody's in the stall together.So great conversations can be had, you know, pretty much anywhere.So n- Exactly.no worries on that.Well, there's a lot to unpack.And I wanna start with this idea, and it's suchit's so in the zeitgeist right now, that women are supposed to begoing through menopause are supposed to be leaning in to more strength training.Yeah.So what I would love to do is start off with, like, if you were talking to a 50-year-old woman- Mm-hmm.who's maybe at the tail end of perimenopause, starting to go into those postmenopausal years.She's been through it all, uh, uh, the whole transitional experience.What would you tell her about working out?What are some of, like, the tried and true principles that she needs to know about her 50-year-old body?That it is not what her 48-year-old body was.Ooh, that's good.I mean, we go through all theLa- I feel like perimenopause every 6 months is different.Like, your body changes- Ah, so true.rapidly, right?Yeah.So then when you get to the tail end of it and you're starting to come out the other side, it's completely different than what you've just experienced, which is completely different from what your body was when you were, like, in your 30s.So when looking at someone who's 50 in the tail end of perimenopause, I always pull out the big rocks.I'm like, okay, so the 3 big rocks I always look at is sleep and sleep quality, 'cause that's super important.We don't get any kinda metabolic or psychological or any kind of health control unless we have really good sound sleep.Then we look at physical and mental movement, and that's where strength training comes in.And then the third one is the big rock of nutrition.So if we're looking at those and we're looking at sleep, part of sleep is circadian rhythm, right?So we need to look at- Mm-hmm.if we're exercising, if we're eating, and how we're working our circadian rhythm.If the big rock of exercise for post-menopause and late perimenopause is strength training, we have to really look at that.Like, okay, what time of day are we gonna do that?Mm-hmm.We want to have the- Mm-hmm.work with how you feel, right?Some people feel fantastic when they first wake up.Yeah, that's great.But if you're someone who gets more energy and motivation as the day goes on, well, maybe you wanna try to fit in your 20 to 30 minutes later in the day.So we have to really look at how does your- Yeah.your life work.And then of course, you have all your other commitments over it.So if you're a night person and youonly time you have to work out is in the morning, then we have to work with that too.But it's really trying to find that and understanding that strength training isn't something that you're just gonna do a 6week block of and then be great at it.So- Yeah.I get people to understand- Oh.if you don't have a history of strength training, I'm not gonna throw you in the gym and tell you to do deadlifts.Right.We're gonna phase you in.And that phase in could be up to 6 months of doing higher rep, lower weight, body weight movement, that kinda stuff, so you understand where your limitations are, if one side's weaker or the other, what your range of mobility is, what your confidence is, and we slowly build load over time.'Cause I get women saying, "Well, I don't know how to lift.It's too much.IAnd I'm gonna get injured."Right.No, that's not what we're about.Yeah.We're looking at, are you going to be lifting when you're 80?Because that's my goal.I want everyone, every woman to have- Right.some strength training when they're 80, 90 onwards.So we have to look right now.If you have a long training history, sweet.Let's go in the gym.We're gonna do some cluster sets.We're gonna set it all up.So we're gonna lift heavier loads and really get into that central nervous system response.But if you've never done any of that, then maybe we start with 3 times a week body weight stuff.And then we add load with back- Right.And then we look at using some kettlebells.And we slowly build as people get more and more confident.I think the critical point here is we've all grown up with the strength training is bad 'cause it gets you bulky.And, you know, you wanna do calories in, calories out.How much cardio can you do?Yeah.And I really wanna try to get women to change that narrative and understand this strength training isn't just an exercise, it's a way of life.Because if we're thinking about lifting loads, growth- Mm-hmm.being independent as we get older, we have to challenge our muscles, specifically our central nervous system for that, that motor pattern.'Cause when we're getting into that, that perimenopause, post-menopause, we're not looking at, at doing the higher reps to build muscle for muscle, uh, hypertrophy.Mm-hmm.'Cause we don't have the impetus really for that.What we want is central nervous system.'cause if we're looking earlier days when we had lots of estrogen, then we had an impetus for really strong muscle contractions, really fast muscle contractions for speed and power, and we also had a impetus for building lean mass 'cause estrogen is tied to all of those factors.When we lose it, we need to find that external stress that's gonna create that same adaptation, and that's through the central nervous system.So if we're looking at lifting heavy loads that we're failing by the 5thOh.then we're really instigating central nervous system to say, "Hey, wait.I need to have more nerve patterns and, um, nerve conduction to be able to stimulate these muscle fibers and to actually create more muscle fibers to lift this load."So we're taking estrogen out of the equation, and we're creating a new response to get that strength and build that mass.Mm.So that's how we look at it.Yep.We're building to be able to be independent when we're 80, 90, 100.I love that th- I love that thought.I always tell people that literally every day, I think about my 90-year-old self and I'm like, "Okay, what do I need to do today to make sure that my 90-year-old self is who I want, you know, is the woman I want her to be?"So I, I love that look at it through the lens of functionality.So, okay, so I have 2 questions on what you said.One is if we look at the patterns of testosterone, from what I can tell is thatAnd it may be more nuanced for the menopausal woman, so this is why I wanna bring this up, is that the biggest increase in testosterone happens in the morning.So is that accurate?And if a postmenopausal woman gets more testosterone in the morning, wouldn't that be a better time to actually do strength training?Well, testosterone's like all the other sex hormones in that it has its own pulse.So we'll have a boost in the morning kind of to try to counter cortisol.If you are doing strength training- Mm.you get a boost after strength training.If you do true sprint interval training- Mm.And we hear this rhetoric about how menopausal and perimenopausal women shouldn't do high-intensity work is because the carrythrough isn't there.If you're doing it properly, then you have a boost of testosterone and growth hormone after that exercise.Exercise in itself is a stress, and your body responds to that stress in particular ways to overcome it so that it gets stronger and fitter and can do it again.When we get into peri- and post-menopause and we don't have all that pulse signaling from estrogen and at some points progesterone, luteinizing hormone, tends to look at, "What are my available sex hormones and what are my available steroid ho- hormones?"So it's like, "Okay, yeah, we need testosterone because it helps counter that exercise stress.It helps drop cortisol.We need growth hormone because we've just broken down all of this tissue, so we need to stimulate that-" Yeah." tissue to repair.And testosterone and growth hormone kinda go hand-in-hand."So we're looking at the pulse of- Okay.these hormones.It's not just we see that it peaks in the morning and then kind of wanes off and then peaks again.There's ways of increasing the pulse of those hormones depending on what you're doing.So that's why, like, when we started this conversation- Hm.it's like understanding the woman and, and where she has the most energy so we can- Mm-hmm.maximize those, those different pulses.A lot of women think that when they go to the gym, they have to come out feeling smashed.A lot of times if you're- Mm.doing the strength training properly and you're not doing a metabolic stress of 10 to 12 reps but you're actually staying on the lower power end, because it's a central nervous system response, you come out feeling really good and relaxed because you get that growth hormone, that testosterone, and a subsequent para- Mm.sympathetic response.So you don't come out feeling smashed.You come out feeling like, "Yeah, I feel worked, but I feel really good."And that's where if we find, like, low energy, this is a way of increasing that energy and feeling like, "Yeah, uh, it's more-" Mm-hmm." 'cause it's the brain effect, right?So you're, like, waking up the brain from it-" Right." central nervous system."So you do a heavy load, and then you're like, "I have clarity.I can do something else."Right.So okay, so did I just hear thenI'm 54.There would be no need for me to ever do a 10 to 12 rep set with my weights.I should always do the heaviest I can possibly lift in 5 or 6 reps?Yeah, but we have to periodize that too.So when we're looking at what's the best, like optimal range for, you know, so you're 54, um, you wanna have the base of it in that lower rep range, right?So you don't ever wanna go over 8.What I try to get people to understand now, because looking at something like one repetition maximum is too hard to figure out, and your one rep max changes- Yeah.depending on how strong you feel.So I say, okay, you wanna go in and you wanna look at doing your weights with 2 reps in reserve.So that means you do enough of a load so that you could possibly eke out 2 more reps at the end with good form.Mm-hmm.That's it.So, you know- Mm.that could be 6 Okay.6 reps, it could be 8 reps, but don't go over the 8.And this is how we can really- Okay.load it and keep it in that power-based range based on how you're feeling in the day and what you can do.So we look at starting weight, and then we can go into different like macro cycles, micro cycles.What are you doing in the week?What are you doing over 4 weeks?How much loading are youWhere's your deload?Are we doing 5 reps?Are we doing 3 by twos?Are we doing cluster sets?There's so much you can do within the programming there to stay in that bottom part- Yeah.without ever having to get into that 10 to 12 rep range.So then where does cardio fit in at all?'Cause I, I, so I will tell you again, through my 54-year-old post-menopausal lens, I definitely notice the calm when I do really heavy weightlifting.Like there is this sense of like, whoa, somebody just gave me like a whole bunch of progesterone.Is that what it feels like?It's like a chill pill.It feels incredible.But then when my brain is racing, if I go for a walk, I love to run.I was a competitive tennis player, so I love to go run.And it just is my mood.It enhances my mood and brightens my brain.And I think that in the cultural conversation around strength training, we've sort of lost, well, what does cardio look like to benefit the menopausal woman?Mm-hmm.And for me, I've gone from running long distance to walking long distance to hiking to rucking toBut there's still a different feel I get in my body when I do cardio.So what, what do you recommend for cardio for menopausal women?Yeah, so we look at polarizing your training.So we hear all that rhetoric about the zone 2 stuff.And to me, I'm like- Mm-hmm."No, when we look at the basic physiology between men and women, women don't need to do a whole bunch of zone 2 to get the benefits that is purported for zone 2 of increasing free fatty acid use, mitochondrial use," all that kind of stuff.I tell women, "Zone 2 is your soul food."Like, I come from an endurance background.Yeah.I mean, Xterra bikes, everything, right?So I get a bike, I go out, I go out for hours.I love it.That's my soul food.I get lost, I come back, I feel fantastic.Mm-hmm.But that's not optimal for this 50-year-old body, right?Yeah.And it's not optimal for women who are trying to lose abdominal adiposity, who are trying to get better insulin control, who are trying to change body composition.We need to look at that high-intensity work, the stuff that we've been pushed- Mm.away from doing, just from a cultural nuance- Mm-hmm.the way we've grown up.So when we're looking at true sprint interval training, this is 30 seconds or less, as hard as you can possibly go.Hmm.Like full on, full out.Okay.The best way I can teach someone to do that is on an assault bike, where you're looking at arms and legs- Oh, yeah.against resistance.Like everyone hates the assault bike, but 30 seconds, you're blasting.I was just gonna say, my trainer pops me on that and I'm like, "Oh fuck, we're doing the assault bike again?"I know.So I make people chase meters.I'm like, "How hard can you go for 30 seconds?"And- Yes.you have a couple of friends around, "Go, go, go, go, go."And you see, and then the next one, which is 3 or 4 minutes later, 'cause you want 3 to 4 minutes recovery as you're chasing the meters, try to push a little bit harder.Mm.Most people are like, "Oh, I can do-" Mm-hmm." 3 to 5 or 8 of those."It's like, "Well, we'll see," 'cause usually, it's like two, and they're like, "Oh, I'm done," 'cause it's hard.That's what sprinting is.Right.It's hard.Yeah.So when you're doing that, you're creating an epigenetic change within the muscle to- Mm-hmm.open up more of what we call the Glut4 protein gates, which are the way that carbohydrate and glucose get into the muscle cell without insulin.It creates a, over- Mm-hmm.the course of, you know, 3 to 4 weeks of doing this kind of work, now all of a sudden you have better insulin control because your body has said, "Hey, skeletal muscle is more sensitive to carbohydrate.We have more of these proteins that translocate to bring carbohydrate in.We don't have to rely much on insulin."When we look at high-intensity interval training, which is just a step down from the intensity, where the intervals are one to 4 Mm-hmm.minutes at 80% to 90%, with variable recovery, this is more of a mitochondrial response, where we're looking at increasing- Mm-hmm.the capacity of the mitochondria to use carbohydrate and use free fatty acids, to reduce those free fatty acids that are circulating that get wrapped up by the liver and stored as visceral fat.So this is how we're reducing- Mm-hmm.the conversation of the visceral fat in the body.The combination of the 2is really, really important for metabolic health and body composition.Yeah.If we're doing that long, slow stuff all of the time, it's not a hard enough exercise stress to create these adaptations that we need to have.Got it.Estrogen, progesterone, and some extent testosterone used to do for us.We're looking for that external stress that is above and beyond what the body can usually, you know, understand so that it creates all these new feedback pathways to benefit our metabolic and our psychological and all of these responses that go to shit when we hit peri and post-menopause.You know- Yes, they do.You know, when you go out-your long, on your long rock, or like me, going for a long ride, that's our soul food, right?'Cause that's how we just get rid of the stress.And we get that elated feeling of calmness, and that's endemic because of- Yes.our backgrounds.But if someone hasn't been doing that- Right.I'm not gonna say, "Okay, now, on the weekend, let's go for a 4hour ride or 3hour run," because that's contra- Right.indicative to what we want for the body.R- okay.So let me sum up then.What I heard is there's 3 categories of exercise that we've talked about right now.When you're doing strength training, you wanna do heavy, less reps.When you're doing cardio, you really want to do sprints that push you in short intervals.And when you just wanna calm your mindAnd feed your soul, I love the way you said that, that's where your hiking and your walking and your running come in.And they all areWe call them exercise, but for the post-men, or the menopausal woman, they all serve a different purpose.Exactly, exactly.So where does something like yoga fit in?Or pilates, you know, or anything like that?Yeah.I put that as, like, your s- part of the soul food, because there's some people who love yoga, and love- Mm.the power of yoga and the feeling from it.From pilates, it's not pure strength training, but it's more the proprioception and the balance.Doing plyos on the jump board is not true plyometrics so 'cause it's not loading the bone in different metrics, but it is good.It's a complementary aspect core, strength, functionality.So there's definitely a time and a place for it to fit in, but again, it shouldn't be the bread and butter of it all.'Cause the other thing is brain health, like w- if we talk and listen to a lot of stuff that Lisa said- Mm-hmm.we have to look at exercise and the way that it affects our brain and brain function.So if we're looking at neural pathwaysMm-hmm.this is where that heavy lifting comes into play, because if you're using central nervous system response, you're creating new neural pathways.So it's like doing Sudoku except- Right.your exercise.If we're doing that high-intensity work- Yeah.that, that actually produces more BDNF, or brain neurotrophic factor- Mm-hmm.than moderate intensity or low intensity.And we're trying to increase the volume and the tissue health of our brain.So if we're doing both of those- Right.then we are really benefiting, benefiting our brain health, attenuating dementia, d- attenuating Alzheimer's, kind of- Mm-hmm.countering that amygdala change that happens with menopause because you're creating that stress- Mm-hmm.of the brain is responding to it as well.Yeah.Tha- you know, she broughtIn our conversation, she and I talked about this grandmother hypothesis, and y- you've heard her talk about that?Yeah, yeah.Yeah.It's really interesting, yeah.So I'm really fasIt's really interesting.So I actually haveI have a team of researchers that I will ask to go, like, scour PubMed and find me research.So I was like, "Go find me stuff on this grandmother hypothesis after I talk to her."And, uh, you know, the way I think about things is everything in the body makes sense once you understand it.And so in the grandmother hypothesis, there were 2 things that really were brought to my attention.One is that the post-menopausal woman was meant to go out and forage.This is what Lisa explained when I brought her on, is actually meant to go out and forage for food to bring back to the cave while the hunter and gatherers were out trying to get a kill.So in that, there has to be a fitness benefit that we see in those post-menopausal years, that our body is moving towards a different type of fitness because our brain changes so we can take care of the culture.That's what Lisa brought to us.But this fact that we were meant to go out and forage and pull tubers out of the ground, that's the part of the grandmother hypothesis, means there must be something that our body was meant to do differently from a fitness level.Do you see where I'm going with this?Yeah.Yeah.And we also look at it as like, when we look at the human body itself, it was designed to move, right?It's designedMm-hmm.to have bursts of activity and to also go long and slow.But our society has globalized this whole sedentary aspect, and when we look over the course of generations, it's an epigenetic change where now we're seeing things like obesity is just a given in certain family streams because of these genetic changes.So when we're looking at history and we're looking at how the metabolism, everything is changed, yes, right?So we see that metabolism and everything has created this let's go slow and long and have lots of enduranceMm-hmm.part of the grandmother hypothesis, and we look at biomechanics, and we look at when you take those hormones away, yes, we're really good at fat burning, going long and slow, but we don't have to be that way, because when we're looking at the highest and fastest growing population in, like ultra-endurance, are women who are 40 plus, because they're naturally falling- Ah.into this go long and slow.But we lose fast twitch fibers quickly as we age, both men and women, but for women, we end up losing more 'cause we start with less.And this is where, if we- Mm.using exercise as a creation of a different type of response, lactate metabolism is really, really important.So if we look historically, we would get lactate from sprints we'd have to do to get away from animals or, you know, even regardless what age.Right.We produce lactate.And that's really important for brain and heart health, because that's a metabolite that the brain and the heart really use.So we look at some of the sex differences that are coming up in things like Alzheimer's.It has to do with the plaque development and lactate metabolism.So if we're looking at doing sprint stuff for, you know, neuropathways and attenuating Alzheimer's, we have to also look at the fact that we want to produce lactate to keep glial cells- Mm.and neurons working to keep the brain conversation going.So this is- Mm.where we're looking historically, yes, the grandmother hypothesis makes sense, but as we go through what's happened from a, a global standpoint of sedentarism and the more we know about aging, we don't have to age in this sedentary fashion to create all these health issues that keep coming up that are such a burden on the public health system, and burden- Yeah.on insurance, right?Yeah.We see it all the time.Thank you.I come back to The States, I feel like I have everything if I sit down to watch the evening news.I have diabetes, I have stroke- Right.I have all this stuff, right?Because that's- Yeah.what's being thrown at us.But if we understand physiology and we understand the body is very plastic.We have neuroplasticity, we have skeletal and muscle plasticity.Let's create these adaptive changes that allow us to have better metabolism to keep moving forward to maintain our power, our speed, maintain our balance, maintain our bone strength, because we look at history to learn from it, but I don't think- Right.You know, a lot of people- Right.looking at history and saying, "Hey, this is what we have to do.This is what's coming up."It's like, well, actually no.Look at history- Right.learn from it, and now we have all this other evidence and information that we can apply to have better longevity and, like, not be the burden on the public healthcare system.Yeah.Yeah.Uh, I, I am so with you on that one because this idea that as we age we slow down and diseases kick in, um, A, that's a horrible life to live, but then B, it is a burden on our healthcare system.So I doWhat's interesting about this flip on the conversation that you and I are having and many other people around menopause is that the old thought was, oh, you, you went through menopause and then you just rested.Yeah.And you sat in your rocking chair, right?And you just kicked back and- You sit in a rolling chair.You know?That's right.And then you're like, "No."I, I mean, that's my mother.My mother is 84.That's her.Like, she doesn't have an athletic bone in her body.And yet what I'm hearing is now we're saying the 180 degree opposite, which is, you're losing these hormones but you can use exercise to actually make this transition smoother, bring them back a little bit like testosterone and growth hormone, and that is ultimately going to have a brain effect.And so if maybe in my 30s I was exercising to look good, in my 50s I'm exercising to make sure that I'm thinking properly.Right.Exactly.Because what's the thing that's been going around?You want to be the oldest person in the weight room, not the youngest person in the assisted care?I was like, yeah, that's right.Oh, I love that.totally it.Oh, my God.That's so good.Yeah.That's good.So, okay, so then, you know, before we go into the fasting conversation, I would say the other challenge that we're seeing a lot in our community, I'm sure you're seeing it in yours, is that as collagen goes down, injuries become more prolific.Yeah.And we're now living in a time where we're getting a lot of new information coming out about some of the musculoskeletal injuries, frozen shoulder being the biggest.So is there anything a woman can do if she's listening to this and she's like, "Okay, I'm gonna go the gym, I'm gonna start heavi- lifting heavy weights, and I'm gonna start sprinting up a hill," how does she make sure she doesn't injure herself?Yeah, soft tissue injuries, big huge thing.Plantar fasciitis and frozen shoulder are the 2 biggest issues, right?'Cause they're all- Yeah.soft tissue, tendon stuff.And we know how estrogen affects that.So one of my good friends is Kelly Starrett, and he started MobilityWOD stuff and now has The Ready State, and he's looked a lot into tissue health.So I've turned to him and his wife, Juliet, to understand a little bit more about tissue health.So we're looking at a little bit of blood flow restriction through what they call voodoo flossing.So it's a, kind of like a TheraBand, but you have the ability to wrap it around the joints of, of interest and do range of motion stuff with that wrapped and then remove it- Hmm.and do range of motion again.And it's m- it's a, a blood flow response that then increases the actual blood flow to the joint so you have better range of motion so that it reduces the friction and that cartilage issue as well as enhances the, the, I guess, the responses within the tendon because now you have more blood- Hmm.So I have women really, like, if you have arthritic onset of arthritis in your knees, then we do voodoo flossing before squats, or maybe we actually keep the band on as proprioception for squats.If we're gonna do sprints, we have to do a really, really good sound warmup through mobility.So mobility becomes a key functionality.So this is your foam roller.This is your, looking at right- Mm-hmm.And it's not your static stretching.It's actually getting into the full joint and joint capsule.So there are different- Okay.techniques to really, like, pull the joint capsule, get more blood flow around it to enhance- Hmm.the tissue health in and around the joints.Um, and this is how- Okay.we look at avoiding soft tissue injuries.And then if you do have- Right.a tissue injury like plantar fascia, then there are specific things you can do with voodoo floss and with different types of massage to really enhance the blood flow to those tissues.Right.Is that like BFR bands or kaatsu bands?Mm-hmm.I've seen both of those.Uh, no, like- Or is voodoo flossing something different?Yeah, looks really similar.Okay, interesting.I wish I was in the other room- Interesting.'cause I have one in the other room, I'm gonna pull it out and show you.Yeah.But yeah, it's a- I'll go look it up.Yeah.Yeah.You know, and I l- I love that idea because I do think if we're gonna s- start to have a whole culture going through menopause and strength training, we don't wanna end up with a whole culture of injured women.Mm-mm.And if it gets too many injuries, then all of a sudden now women are like, "Forget it.I'm going back to the couch."Yeah.So we, uh, you know, that's really, it's interesting to, to know that there are some other ways we can look at it.And what I also heard in what you said was foam rolling, stretching, warming up becomes more important in these menopausal years than perhaps it did in our 20s and 30s.Yeah, it used to be get up off the couch, run out the front door and go, but now it's like, oh, 15 minutes- Yeah.of mobility, and then I go do my sprints, and then I- Yes.come back and do some more mobility.Yeah.Yes.Okay, I love that.So, okay, now going back to the grandmother effect, and this is really, you and I talked about this before we started recording, one of the things Lisa said that has my brain really fascinated is that as women go through menopause, our brains become less sensitive to glucose, and it becomes more preferential, more receptive, I should say, I want to be really careful with the words I use, to ketones.So of course, my fasting brain was like, "Well, that's interesting."So then there is a place for fasting in the menopausal experience because keet can help supercharge our brains, and that's honestly what we see in our community.So many women start fasting and they're like, they drop weight and their brain comes back online.And then on the flip side of that, I've heard you talk about how it's hard on the menopausal body because of the cortisol stimulation of fasting.Mm-hmm.So what I'd love to, to chat about is, is there a middle ground here between getting our brain some ketones and not letting cortisol get so high that it tanks all the other hormones?What are your, what are your thoughts?So, I come from it from, like, my lane is the active woman, right?So I know that- Mm-hmm.most women are under fueled anyway.The way that I come from it is looking at the chronobiology like we started the conversation and if we look, you know, cortisol peaks a half an hour after you wake up and then it dips and you have these pulses throughout the day.So we need to have fuel available to kind of stimulate the hypothalamus to say, "Hey, you know what?There's nutrition coming in and we can-" Hmm." have better appetite, hormone control, and we can drop cortisol."What I do tell women is that we have to go back to, quote, "normal eating," where you have breakfast within- Hmm.an hour to drop that cortisol, stimulate the hypothalamus, go through the day eating really good quality foods, making sure you put a precedence on protein, and then you don't eat after dinner.So you have that overnight, quote, "fast," which is just normal eating.So we're looking at that overnight fast.Your body has an opportunity to repair, you're developing some ketones, and then when we get into that whole brain health conversation where I'm looking at it, at the new research and stuff that's coming out about Alzheimer's and dementia, primarily, you know, lots of my friends' parents are experiencing it, my grandparents had dementia, so really interested, and we're seeing this cultural- Yeah.at first, right?So if we're looking at the population that's being studied right now with dementia and brain fog, it's the women that were not challenged because they weren't allowed or they weren't- Mm-hmm.really proficient to go out and become doctors and lawyers and neuroscientists and all the kind of brain stem jobs that are available now.Hmm.And they were not encouraged to exercise.So now we're looking- Right.the research is coming out about fasting and stuff in post-menopausal women is a cultural nuance because they haven't had the same brain exposure challenges that we've had because our- Mm-hmm.availability.So we start looking specifically- Yep.at brain metabolism and trying to get rid of or stop the plaque development.In Alzheimer's, this is where they start looking specifically at lactate metabolism to improve glial cell conversations.And lactate is the byproduct of a lot of glucose metabolism, and this is where looking at the high intensity work comes into play.When we look at ketones as well- Right.for women who are not exercising and not producing lactate and because we have this glucose misstep, then that's where the ketones come into play.So we're looking at a non-acidic population, then yes, we can look at using fasting strategically for resetting our circadian rhythm and improving some of the brain metabolism, but in my pop of active women, we need to change up the activity and make sure that we are working with our hormone pulses, we're producing lactate on a regular basis to affect the brain metabolism in a way that a non-exercisingpopulation would use with ketones.So this is where you and I have very similar ideas around what we want to do with metabolism, but our populations are different, because I'm working within that population- Right.and looking at brain metabolism and longevity and body comp through that exercise stress, as well as the fueling.Yeah.And then you're looking at it from your practice and the general pop who doesn't really exercise, right?And so we're looking at 2 different populations- Right.Yeah.that we want to have the same outcome, but our methods of getting people there are a little bit different.So I think that- Yeah, that was so, really brilliantly said.And, you know, again, to let the listeners in on what you and I talked about ahead of time is, you know, part of the reason we're having this conversation is because we have so many women that both follow us and what they're hearing is you're saying don't fast and I'm saying do fast.And what I hate about social media is that you need a conversation like this to understand that there's more nuance to this.And what you and I are both in alignment on is when you put yourself in states of hard and you push yourself, you will see your aging brain perform differently, and that is a beautiful thing over time.And what I also hear from you is, so if I have a woman who's completely sedentary, she's never worked out before, and this is one that I've been really thinking about as this exercise conversation has come back online, then short, I'm a fan of cycling fasting.That was the whole purpose of Fast Like a Girl was like, don't fast the same way all the time.Look at it as tools.There are 6 different levels of fasts that I saw in the research and I saw in my clinic and online that worked, but just like you have a dumbbell and you have a sprint and you have the voodoo bands and all this, they're all just tools that we get to pull out when we need them to push ourselves out of apathy.really.Right.So that w- we age better than we've been aging before.Yeah.And like you said, the problem with social media is they put everything into one bowl and mix it.And so they're like- That's right."Oh, you're a woman of a certain age.You need to fast, you need to exercise, you need to do this and that," and they don't mix, because that's like taking the whole- That's right.table, dumping it in, and saying, "All my tools are together.Why am I not fixed?"It's like, no.We look at what's- That's right.on the table, right?We have some menopause hormone therapy over here, we have exercise over here, we have different metabolic control here, and we want to strategically use them when we need to.I'm so happy we're having this conversation because that's exactly what I've been saying to my people.We can't take the toolsLike, this is the way I look at it.If I had a toolbox and I was repairing my room an- and I took the toolbox into the room, I wouldn't pull the hammer out and the screwdriver and be like, "Well, the hammer's better than the screwdriver."Right.I wouldn't put those 2 next to each other.I would say, "Okay, there's a time to use the hammer and there's a time to use the screwdriver.I should probably figure out what those times look like."Yep.But just the sheer aspect of reels and shorts and the attention span of the public, we have all these tools that we are saying, "This is good and this is bad."Right.And yet, they're all just tools.Yeah, yeah.It's beautiful.I'll get questions from breast cancer patients, and they're like, "My oncologist told me I should fast, but I exercise, and I hear from you that I shouldn't fast."I'm like, "Well, wait a second.That's another population that's different."We want to use exercise- Yes.during chemotherapy and radiotherapy as maintenance and keeping things going, but fasting can be really powerful when we're looking at attenuating some of the cellular mechanisms that happen with cancer.But that's a conversation to have- Yeah.with an oncologist, not through social media with me.So again, we have those different populations, right?Yes.So it's like- Yes.let's stick to this lane.Yes.I'm generalizing for the healthy woman who exercises.And there are nuances here, and there are nuances there, but I can't explain all of that in a 20-second reel.Yeah.Oh my God, I love you.You can watch my Instagram and Facebook over the next couple days.I just put out a video where I'm like, "I think we need a user's guide on how to navigate health information on social media."And the very first thing I said is, "You need to understand there's short-form content and there's long-form content.And if you're gonna build your health strategies around short-for-, form content, you're really in for suffering."Yes."Because it's just little snippets of information.Head on over to somebody's podcast, their YouTube, their book.Like, listen to the longer conversation so you actually get more context to this information."Yeah, of course.It's crazy.Now I have this image of, like, the short reel of a woman who's just off the couch, goes to the gym, tries to deadlift 200 pounds with a voodoo fast band, not eating.And then- That's right.those are all, those are all short reels right there.That's right.what's gonna come out of the reels from this podcast.We're gonnaThat's exactly what's gonna happen.Yep, exactly.That was so good.That was so good.SoOkay, so then this leads me to the thought, which is, do you eat before you work out?Um, and now, I will tell you, you actually have changed my mind on that.Um, watching the, the, you know, the reels on you because I came from the era, in my younger self, whereDo you remember that book called Body For Life?Yes, I do.And the guy gave awayHe gave away, like, a million dollars for the people who lose the most weight, and his number one strategy is work out on an empty stomach- Right.because it forces your body to go findAnd it worked in my 30s.Mm-hmm.And then when I started to try to lift heavier weights, I was like, "Oh, this is not working to go in in a fasted state."Right.So, can you talk about proper nutrition going into a workout, and then what's our recovery meal look like as well?Yeah.So, as, you know, when we have our hormones working for us, we can get away with a lot.That's why we look at all these trends and people are like, "I don't really have an issue.What are you talking about?"But as we get older, our bodies become more sensitive to things.So, eating beforehand- Yeah.is really important.Now, I'm not saying a full meal.We look at the research and we see that 30 grams of carbohydrate with 15 to 20 grams of protein before a session that has cardio and strength is optimal, because what we're doing is we are now- Hmm.telling the hypothalamus, which is really where our energy systems are, that there's some nutrition coming in so that we can raise our blood sugar.We have enough nutrition coming in so that we can hit intensities.And the hypothalamus doesn't go, "Oh, shit.We gotta start conserving 'cause here's this big stress coming in.We don't have any fuel, so let's start- Hmm.turning the thyroid and everything down."So we need that, and as we get older, it becomes really important because, again, the first thing that goes as we get older exercising fasted is lean mass.And we know that it's- Mm-hmm.so incredibly- Yeah.hard to build and maintain lean mass.Not only that, since- Yeah.we are losing our hormone pulses, our estrogen and progesterone pulses because we're flat-lining- Mm-hmm.the hypothalamus is in a little bit of a dysfunctional state 'cause it's like, "Hey, wait.Uh, uh, I don't have to create this pulse every day, but I still have that stimulus for it."So you bring food in to also let the hypothalamus work a bit better.So if we are having that- Right.little bit of nutrition before we go to the gym, brain is on fire, central nervous system is working.We can get more out of that workout.And then within 30 to 40 minutes afterwards, we want to have a good hit of protein with a bit of carbohydrate.Protein more important so after- Mm-hmm.strength training.We need about 40 grams as women who are peripostmenopause because we're more what we call anabolically- Okay.resistant to exercise and food, so we don't get- Right.the same signaling with that 20 to 25 grams.Mm-hmm.We need more protein, and the protein is important because not only does it allow the muscle to be flooded with leucine, which increases the triggering for building lean mass, but we also have an increased amount of amino acids circulating, which helps with metabolism- Mm-hmm.helps with the brain to recover, and to really help with that testosterone and growth hormone response because it needs amino acids to actually function.So, when we're looking at it from that whole recovery standpoint, we need some fuel.We want to go in, the hypothalamus is working- Yep.so we can fuel our workouts properly, and then we need to refuel afterwards to get adaptation going to help with brain function to keep those signalings going, and then we can move on with the rest of our day.Okay.So, how long before?Just so I can recap.Like, 40 grams of carbohydrates and 15 to 20 grams of protein beforehand.Was that right?30 grams before, 15-ishOh, yeah.And, I mean- Okay.within the hour, but if you're someone who gets up and goes- Ah.to the gym at 5:30 in the morning, I don't want you getting up to have food at 4:30.You could have it on your drive- Yeah.to the gym, right?Just as long as you have something in.Okay.And then afterwards, the key really is bumping up to this 40 grams of protein, and what didYou said 30 grams of carbohydrates?Which- Afterwards, it depends on what you did.If you're just doing strength training, then you- Okay.could have your 40 grams within that 30 to 40 minutes, and then your real meal up to 2 hours later, and that takes care of the carbohydrate aspect.If you've done- Got it.like, a high intensity session and you've done a lot of fuel depleting type work, then you do need to look at getting- Right.that 40 grams, and probably around 40 to 50 grams of carbohydrate.So, it's almost a one-to-one ratio- Okay.post-exercise.And, I mean, some people- Okay.split their breakfasts as well, so they'll have some before and then the rest- Mm-hmm.Mm-hmm.So it's not increasing total calorie content- Yeah.which people get worried about.It's just really manipulating your- Yeah.food intake.Okay.Yeah, I go to the gym, and if I have to run errands afterwards, I have a pack of beef sticks that I keep in my car, and I'm like, "Okay, I'll just eat a bunch of beef sticks to try to get to that protein level."Which actually brings me to the next question, which is, what do we do with our plant-based friends?Like, where does, where does plant-basedIs there a room forYou're plant-based.Amazing.Yeah.I mean, tell us, because- Yeah.I am a believer that there's w- a win in all of this.We have to pull these pieces out and have deeper conversations about 'em.And I've seen a lot of post-menopausal women that are plant-based that are really healthy.So, you're plant-based.Talk about this.Yeah.So, I mean, I've been plant-based since I wasWay before the trend.Oh, wow.My high- Yeah.school biology teacher took us on a field trip to a pig slaughterhouse, and that kind of did it for me.And you were- And so- You were done.I was done.And growing up in San Francisco in all of the kind ofLike, I went to high school outside of the Haight, so there's lots of hippie influences, so- Oh, yeah.That's my- Ah.and environmental stuff, so yeah.All the stuff that's trendy now is kind of what I went when I was 15 with theBut throughout my academic- Okay.and athletic career, you know, looking at protein, protein intake hasn't really come up until about the past 10 to 15 years, and we're starting to see more and more- Okay.of plant-based stuff out.And it's not about mixing amino acids.It's about maximizing your protein intake.So when we're talking about plant-based post-exercise, it's the leucine content that's really important.So we need to get around- Mm-hmm.3 grams of leucine, and we see that's around 30 to 40 grams of whey protein, and you can get that equivalent if you're- Okay.looking at pea protein isolate with maybe some hemp, or if you're not someone who's going down the powdered route, then we can look at things like chia seeds and nuts and oats soaked together with- Uh-huh.oat milk or almond milk- Mm.and so there's ways of building that protein intake with plant, plant-based foods that are high in protein.But a lot of times, we don't think about things like you can have a whole plate mixed of grains and nuts and seeds and green peas and edamame- Mm.and you can get 40 to 60 grams of protein right there.So there's ways of- Right.doing it when you are plant-based, but you kinda have to think outside of the box.But it's becoming much, much easier- Mm.now with the awareness of all the- Mm.environmental factors and health factors, so easier now than it was when I was 15.That's for sure.Yeah.So I love this conversation because it's funny.We have a fasting group on Facebook called The Resetter Collaborative, and it has like over 100,000 people, and they're very active.The thing that shocks me is the carnivores and the plant-based people, they fight with each other all the time, and I, when I look at food through a hormonal lens, I'm like, "Okay.Fiber is so important."Super.Like, it helps us, right?Yeah.We can not- That's like the Woo.lose sight ofYeah.And nuts and seeds, like, so important, so if I'm over here focused on all this meat, where am I making room for enough fiber from a hormonal lens?Super important.But then when you come over and you look at the omnivores, you know, they're like, "Well, how are you getting all your amino acids?"Mm-hmm.And so you end up in this conflict of interest, and so I actually am putting out another book.It's a, it's aI call it a food book, in the fall, and it's called Eat Like a Girl, and I hired 2 chefs.I hired a plant-based chef, and I hired an om- omnivore chef, and they're both have their expertise, and I was like, "Okay.Make me some recipes."And they're incredible recipes, and there's room for both.Yeah.So I think that fact- Absolutely.that you're out there talking about muscle and fitness and you're plant-based is really important to highlight.It's just what I heard from you is you need to be very aware of the combination you're putting together.Is that, is that what I heard in your statement?Like- Yeah, yeah.get a good variety of these.Yeah, ab- absolutely, and it falls into the whole gut microbiome thing and the fiber thing that we- Mm.see as one of the biggest changing factors in about 3 to 4 years before that 1 point in time, menopause.Like, there's a lot of research coming out- Yeah.'cause as you're losing hormones, you're losing a lot of the diversity of the gut microbiome, and the way you counter that is with fiber.Right.So when I see the carnivorous diet, I'm like, "Oh my gosh."WhatLike, the first thing- Yes.that goes is your gut microbiome.Come on, people.Let's be real.Yeah.And you don't want to, like- Right.get into the full nuance of just full plant-based and, and nothing either, right, because then you can get into being too full before you get everything.So that's why when I talk about- Yes.plant-based, you have to be very conscious of what you're eating and how it fits together so that you're getting everything that you need but you don't end up being too full before you get what you need.So I've written, like, in some of our groups, like with Haley Babcock in our Haley Happens Fitness, we get these conversations all the time.So I'm like, "Okay.""Here's a day in the life of a vegan.Here's the day in the life of someone who eats meat.Here's a day"- Hmm." in the life of someone who, who eats dairy and eggs."And they all end up being between 150 and a 160 grams of protein, sitting right in that 2200 to 2500 calorie.And people are like, "Oh my gosh, really?We can do this?"I'm like, "Yes, we can do this."It's just being aware of- Yeah.how- I love that.Yeah.Oh my God.I love that.Okay, so just so the plant-based people know, what are some of the leucine-rich plants that if you wanna trigger that leucine, get that leucine amount?So interesting, we look at edamame and green peas.So those 2 are really high.And people are like, "What?"It's like, yeah.Yeah.And we look at spirulina.So blue- Mm.and green spirulina, like, ounce to ounce is the highest plant-based protein, c- almost complete protein that you can get.Plus it has iron.So if you're looking at making a smoothie, okay, well, you know what?If you put in frozen green peas, and you put in some chia seeds, and you put in some blue spirulina, plus some berries, you don't even taste the green peas.And all of a sudden here's your 40 grams- Mm-hmm.of leucine-rich protein.But- I love that.it digs a bit deep.Yeah, I d- I mean, well, you, it, the smoothie's great 'cause you can hide anything in it.Like , you know, just put enough, enough flavor in it and you can get all the good things and not even taste it.Do you think we got the conversation on soy wrong?I do because it's been taken out of context.Because if we look at phytoestrogens- Yes.and all the good things that happen in the Japanese culture of longevity, it's not just the soy.It's how they live.It's the other things they eat.And then when you bring it over to the Western diet and you start adding soy, it's so ultra-processed that there's lots of side effects.If you're not- Right.sensitive to some of the side effects, then yeah, implement it.But for me, like, I can't do tofu, but I can do tempeh because of the fermentation aspect of it.Oh.Like, I wouldn't use soy milk because it gives me too many of the negative side effects, but other people don't.So the Western idea of soy is very nuanced as well, because unless you are really following the ethos of the Japanese lifestyle and all the benefits it has, then you could potentially have issues with soy.When I look at soy as a protein source- Hmm.I was like, it takes 50 grams of soy protein powder to match 20 grams of whey, but it only takes 30 grams of pea protein isolate to match that 20 grams of whey.And the thing with pea ice- Ah.just on the cusp of having enough leucine.So all you have to do is add maybe another half a tablespoon and then boom, you've hit that leucine context.But what's really- Beautiful.It's so much more.So again, it's, I feel like- Yeah.I need to write a book about all of this, but I think it would take too much time.Yes, right.We'll just have conversations.Yeah, it, like the nu-Yeah, I was just saying, what would, the book could be called like, The Nuance of Menopausal Nutrition.I'm like, here's all the things that you really, you really need to know.So- Yes.Okay, I wanna go back to the timing for a minute, because I brought Satchin Panda on to my podcast and we talked specifically about when you should eat, like that first part of your meal.Mm-hmm.And so the question, he said you wait an hour.And what you said is within the first half hour.So just so, because this shows up all the time because we talk about fasting windows and eating windows within my community, and I'm like, "You get to choose where your eating window goes."Like, fasting doesn't mean you skip breakfast.In my opinion, the best thing to do is eat in the light, and when it gets dark out, don't eat.Mm-hmm.And you sort of said this earlier on, make that middle part of your day your eating window.So w- how do you feel about that theory of, like, matching your eating with light?Mm-hmm.And y- well, I'm sure you're aware that, you know, i- it's not that far off from eat within the first half hour, but he basically says don't eat within the first hour.So do we have any way of rectifying those 2 statements?Yeah, so I look at, like I said, physiologists look at cortisol and when they peak.And if you're looking at that cortisol peak that's half an hour after you wake up, and for women who are already sympathetically driven and were looking at, at lowering cortisol, you want to counter it.And the way you do that is with some protein carbohydrate.So that's why I'm like, you wanna eat within that first half an hour to really bring that down and if you're a coffee drinker, then you definitely wanna have some food with it, right?Because if you're drinking coffee within that half an hour, then you're just gonna perpetuate the breakdown effects of cortisol.So when we talk about cortisol and the way that it nuances, especially in per and postmenopausal women, and that increase in that baseline amount of cortisol, we want to do what we can with our circadian rhythm, and we can do that with food.So if we're looking at food and- Mm-hmm.looking at dropping that cortisol to get less of a response over time, then we want to use food to do that.So that's how I look at it.When we're looking at what Satchin's- Okay.saying, he's looking at, you know, primarily male data and the difference in the sensitivity- Yeah.And when we look at population research and we see in both men and women-those who have their eating window by 8:00 AM and then they stop by, like, 4:00, so 8:00 to 4:00- Mm-hmm.end up with all the health benefits that we see with the fasting research.But for those who delay their fast till noon and then they're eating windows from, like, noon to 8:00, they end up with more obesogenic outcomes because they're fighting their circadian rhythm- Mm-hmm.and all the nuances.Because circadian rhythm isn't just a whole body thing.All your cells have its own circadian rhythm.So if you're not working with that, then- Hmm.you end up with a whole misstep.So again, I come back to- Right.physiology, circadian rhythm.What are we looking at?Cellular circadian versus total body circadian.And I say that as I'm completely jet-lagged from flying across the world, right?You're doing a- you're doing a-amazing being jet-lagged.Yeah, there you go.So could it be as simple as putting some protein powder in your coffee if you don't love breakfast?Yeah.Like, if you don't gravitate towards food?Yeah, I don't really get hungry till 11:00 or 12:00, but I get up at 6:00.So I'm like- Yeah."Okay, well, I have a cold brew coffee with a scoop of protein powder and some, uh, almond milk in there."So I'm getting some carbohydrate, I'm getting some protein.Brain's like, "Yeah, there's some fuel coming in," and then I have something to wake me up.Yep.Yeah.It doesn't have to be a lot.Amazing.But it is enough to- Right.get the signaling going that there's stuff coming in.Yeah.I've done all kinds of weird things in my coffee a- and people always ask me, "Are you still fasted?"And, uh, and I always say, "It depends on how you look at the fasted state a- and what you're trying to do in the fasted state."So you could put protein in and maybe you turn autophagy, and that's okay because today's your strength training day and you wanna lean more into mTOR and more into protein.So you put a ton of protein, put tons of collagen in, put some MCT oil in your coffee, you have a little meal there, and you may actually still be in a mild ket- ketogenic state and that might actually work for you to go lift in the gym.I think, again, I love the idea of N of one.Like, be your own N of one.Take these principles and play with them, find out what works for you, then you'll get into a rhythm.The other concept is the best hea-health habit is the one you can stick to.Exactly.So it's like once you find y- your rhythm, now all of a sudden it works.Right, right.So w- j- one last thought was creatine.Everybody's talking about creatine.What do you think of that?It's great.It's one of the most studied supplements and it's so important for women.I mean, we have 70% of the stores that men have anyway.And we do produce some in the liver, but when we look at a lot of the clinical research that comes out from a health standpoint, it's so important for muscle function, gut function, heart function, and brain function.Um, there is- Yeah.a new website, Creatine for Health, that posts all the most recent studies on it.Hmm.And it's everything from- Hmm.pregnant women all the way through old age and creatine, like, so important to improve all the fast energetics.And in particular, again, it comes back, like, I'm interested in brain health and it's so important for brain health.Yeah.And you can put it in your coffee.You can.You definitely can.That's why I brought it up in theI mean, there's a lot that can go in your coffee that really works and brings all these principles together.So- Mm-hmm.Exactly.Well, I, this is great.It's been fun.This has been awesome and I just, yeah, I love geeking out with you and I think people who have been following both you and I hopefully will now have some answers as to where we agree.Yeah.And, 'cause I, again, I've been watching your stuff.I'm like, "We're not saying different things.You're just taking them out of context."We're actually saying very similar things.We just need to put them into a greater conversation and hopefully this did that.Yeah, yeah- So-we probablyIt's been fun.Yeah.Awesome.Yeah, yeah.Thank you.So okay, my last question that I've been asking everybody this season is, what is your definition of health, and how do you know, like how do you w- feel, know that you are actually healthy?Do you have a measurement of that?Oh.I, like full disclosure, I am not in a healthy state this year because I've been so super busy.So- Hmm.I feel- Yeah.very flat and tired all the time.For me, definition of health is waking up and having that energy to take on a new challenge every day, right?And loving that feeling.Yep.And that can come through so many different avenues.It can come through the physicality.It can come through conversations.It can come through good sleep, a good adventure, turning your brain down, all of those things.And when you have that ultimate feeling of peace and energy when you wake up, that's to me is what healthy is.But I've been so disjointed with so many different things going on that I'm like, "I miss that feeling."So that's my priority over- Yeah.Northern Hemisphere summer, Southern Hemisphere winter is to get everything back in line so I can wake up feeling that way again.Oh my gosh.I am so with you.I hit a real wall about a coupleWell, I mean, it's been hitting for a while, but like a month ago, I had this insight for my own self that I've actually given up my health to teach the world how to be healthy, which I hear is a little bit of what you have done as well.Yep.And there's a moment where you have to just say no to everything so that you can take your health back, and I'm on that same journey right now.For July and August and a good portion of September, I'm just powering down and making myself a priority.So I hear you, sister.Like, I'm, I'm, yeah- 100%.really in that same place.Yeah.we need to- 'Cause it's hard to teach health- Right?when you don't- Yeah.Yes.We need a, we need a check-in.We can hold each other accountable.Sounds good.But yeah.It's hard- Yeah.when all the people are asking questions and you're so passionate about what you do, and you want to help people- Yes.but then all of a sudden you're like, "Wait, my whole battery is drained."I don't even have the energy to have a conversation with my loved ones because I don't want to talk.Yes.Yeah.Yes.Yeah.Yes.feel like you know what th- I've been going through that same thing.And finally, I just said there's no amount of anything you could throw at me that would want to take me away from rebuilding my health at this moment because, uh, you know, if you and I aren't healthy, we can't deliver a message.So- Totally.um- Yeah.I love that.Yeah.So check in.Yeah.I'll be pinging you, you ping me.How's it going?I- Perfect.I love it.Will do.Well, thank you.And how do people find you?So if people, you know, don't know y- who you are and what you're up to, how can my audience find you?Social handles, DrStacieSimms on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.And then our website, just drst- Good luck on there.Oh, no.Not a fan of TikTok, but I've been told we need to be on it.Me neither.Uh.Yeah.And then our website- Yeah.just the drstaciesimms website.It's updates for everything that I'm involved in and doing and all the things in one spot.Yeah.I love it.Well, Stacie, thank you so much and I really enjoyed this conversation.I feel like now when we get comments of people saying like, "Well, Stacie says don't fast," I'm going to send them this episode so that we can get off the 90-second reel and get into a deeper conversation.Yeah.So thank you.Appreciate you.You too.Thanks so much.